[Torg] Points-based

[Phil Dack]

Damn, I always do this - confuse the issue by putting two points
into a single post.

Actually my main point was whether anyone had tested a
points-based generation, which is actually separate from having
unified mechanics. Its harder to do comparitive analysis with
different mechanics, but not impossible.

I don't disagree with the variant magic systems - it does add
flavour. 

Phil


--- Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com> wrote:

> Actually, I have always found the plethora of systems to be a
> feature, not a
> flaw.  For example, not only have I used the systems for
> magic, miracles,
> and supers found in the books, for new cosms I have invented
> several new
> systems of magic/miracles/supers as well. I think it enhances
> the cosm
> distinctiveness if different magical cosms (for example)
> accomplish magic in
> different ways.  Off the top of my head, four systems of magic
> I have used
> in games included Aylish and Orrorshian, and two other
> systems: one in which
> the basic D&D spel lists were used, and each spell had a point
> cost to cast
> whereas spellcasters had a certain number of spellpoints for
> that purpose;
> and another far different system wherein there was a language
> of magic (for
> which I used Esperanto) and the mage was given a spell written
> in this
> language.  Over time, the player mage was able to look at the
> various spell
> he had learned, and start experimenting with altering them. 
> His spell
> casting and spell design rolls aided and guided him in those
> endeavors.
> 
> Also, when considering a unified system to cover all these
> matters, I also
> think it's important that even if all magic across the cosms
> works a certain
> way, and all miracles works a certain way, that two different
> kinds of power
> work very differently.
> 
> For example, magic and miracles should never feel like they
> are essentially
> the same, just with two different spell lists.  This is a
> major flaw of D&D.
> In my opinion, magic should feel versatile, and based on the
> idea that the
> more you increase your arcane understanding, the more you can
> do.  Miracles
> on the other hand come from some greater power - and this
> greater power need
> to be respected or worshipped, and one needs to act in
> accordance with their
> wishes, or else be deemed at least temporarily unworthy. 
> Miracles also
> should be far fewer than spells, but more powerful.  SO where
> a mage may
> have a few dozen spells and the ability to improvise and
> design new ones,
> the priest or druid has access to less than a dozen effects,
> but those
> effects are fairly potentially massive and total, not to
> mention always have
> the option to try for a direct invocation.  Also, the mage
> usually risks
> everytime he uses his magic - backlash for example.  If the
> priest is a good
> follower, his risk in using the miracle is minimal.  On the
> other hand, the
> mage does not have to conform his behavior to any outside
> code.  Finally,
> while the mage is always trying to deepen his understanding,
> the priest is
> trying to sell to the masses and convert.
> 
> You *could* use a simple Heroes-ish system, and add in all of
> the above,
> even as flavor text, but I believe that System Does Matter,
> and if the above
> can be systemized to incentivize the above behaviors and
> limits, than magic
> and miracles will feel completely different because they are.
> 
> My $.02
> 
> For what it's worth, I have played Champions, and did enjoy
> it, but Torg is
> much more hassle free IMO.
> 
> -Benn Grant
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-
> >bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Phil Dack
> >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:15 AM
> >To: torg at roadkill.com
> >Subject: [Torg] Points-based
> >
> >One of my issues with Torg in the long term was the many
> >different systems for resolving special effects - magic (at
> >least 2 systems), pulp powers, pulp gadgets, psionics,
> occult,
> >miracles, cybernetics (2 systems) - and so on.
> >
> >I also found it extremely difficult to balance beginning
> >characters, particularly when moving beyond templates to
> >allowing players to design their own characters.
> >
> >I've always felt, for these reasons, that Torg would probably
> >benefit from some points-based underpinning like GURPS or
> Hero
> >System (or M&M for that matter). Has anyone in their personal
> >house-ruleage ever had a look at this, and come up with some
> >ways of making comparison? If not, I'm inclined to use the
> Hero
> >system because of the relatively generic nature of its power
> >generation system to come up with equivalent values (the
> chief
> >difficulty being that Torg's scale is more logathithmic than
> >Hero, so a +1 is of decidely variable impact)
> >
> >cheers,
> >Phil
> >
> >
> >     
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> 
> 
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