[Torg] Points-based

Mon Dec 17 08:59:17 MST 2007

I have not tested an sfx system where you assemble powers out of
champions-esque modules, advantages, and disadvantages, is this what you are
asking?  On the other hand, I did have a system, which I referred to
slightly, where my players had a SpellCasting skill, and the higher the
skill was, the more spell points you had to use each day.  We used the D&D
Spell Lists as a basis, with each tier of spells costing more points to cast
than the one before it.

We also recently played a superheroes game based on the movie Unbreakable.
In that instance each player worked with the GM to craft unique systems for
each character.  

One character who channeled Force (not *the* Force, mnid you) had his force
skill yield power points, useable every round.  So if the character had say
40 Power Points (PPs), in a single round he could allocate 10 points to
Force Flight, 15 points to Force Shield, and 15 points to a Force Attack.
The next round he could switch all 40 points into Force Flight and rocket
out of there, etc.

Another monk-like character had 6 separate Chi skills, based on Air, Water,
Earth, Fire, Heart, and Harmony.  Each element yielded a different ability:
Air=Telepathy, Water=Teleportation, Earth=Healing, Fire=Perfect Actions,
Heart=Sincerity, Life=Inviolability.  Each skill/power went from one to
6(maximum) and each level yielded deeper uses of the power it represented.
Harmony was the exception, Harmony could not be raised, instead, Harmony's
level was always equal to your *lowest* of the other five power skills.  For
a progression example, Water/Teleportation had greater and greater range,
and the opportunity to take peple with you, as you progressed in level.  

Finally, yet another character, based on the Flash, had a single speed
power/skill designed to go from one to ten.  At each level, new abilities
are discovered, such as Air Control, Phasing, Combat Speed, and Instant Task
Completion.

I don't know how or if any of this can be helpful, but this is what we have
done around these sorts of matters.

Perhaps if you outlined a more specific a hypothetical idea of what you are
seeking?

-Benn Grant

>-----Original Message-----
>From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-
>bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Phil Dack
>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:43 AM
>To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
>Subject: RE: [Torg] Points-based
>
>Damn, I always do this - confuse the issue by putting two points
>into a single post.
>
>Actually my main point was whether anyone had tested a
>points-based generation, which is actually separate from having
>unified mechanics. Its harder to do comparitive analysis with
>different mechanics, but not impossible.
>
>I don't disagree with the variant magic systems - it does add
>flavour.
>
>Phil
>
>
>--- Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I have always found the plethora of systems to be a
>> feature, not a
>> flaw.  For example, not only have I used the systems for
>> magic, miracles,
>> and supers found in the books, for new cosms I have invented
>> several new
>> systems of magic/miracles/supers as well. I think it enhances
>> the cosm
>> distinctiveness if different magical cosms (for example)
>> accomplish magic in
>> different ways.  Off the top of my head, four systems of magic
>> I have used
>> in games included Aylish and Orrorshian, and two other
>> systems: one in which
>> the basic D&D spel lists were used, and each spell had a point
>> cost to cast
>> whereas spellcasters had a certain number of spellpoints for
>> that purpose;
>> and another far different system wherein there was a language
>> of magic (for
>> which I used Esperanto) and the mage was given a spell written
>> in this
>> language.  Over time, the player mage was able to look at the
>> various spell
>> he had learned, and start experimenting with altering them.
>> His spell
>> casting and spell design rolls aided and guided him in those
>> endeavors.
>>
>> Also, when considering a unified system to cover all these
>> matters, I also
>> think it's important that even if all magic across the cosms
>> works a certain
>> way, and all miracles works a certain way, that two different
>> kinds of power
>> work very differently.
>>
>> For example, magic and miracles should never feel like they
>> are essentially
>> the same, just with two different spell lists.  This is a
>> major flaw of D&D.
>> In my opinion, magic should feel versatile, and based on the
>> idea that the
>> more you increase your arcane understanding, the more you can
>> do.  Miracles
>> on the other hand come from some greater power - and this
>> greater power need
>> to be respected or worshipped, and one needs to act in
>> accordance with their
>> wishes, or else be deemed at least temporarily unworthy.
>> Miracles also
>> should be far fewer than spells, but more powerful.  SO where
>> a mage may
>> have a few dozen spells and the ability to improvise and
>> design new ones,
>> the priest or druid has access to less than a dozen effects,
>> but those
>> effects are fairly potentially massive and total, not to
>> mention always have
>> the option to try for a direct invocation.  Also, the mage
>> usually risks
>> everytime he uses his magic - backlash for example.  If the
>> priest is a good
>> follower, his risk in using the miracle is minimal.  On the
>> other hand, the
>> mage does not have to conform his behavior to any outside
>> code.  Finally,
>> while the mage is always trying to deepen his understanding,
>> the priest is
>> trying to sell to the masses and convert.
>>
>> You *could* use a simple Heroes-ish system, and add in all of
>> the above,
>> even as flavor text, but I believe that System Does Matter,
>> and if the above
>> can be systemized to incentivize the above behaviors and
>> limits, than magic
>> and miracles will feel completely different because they are.
>>
>> My $.02
>>
>> For what it's worth, I have played Champions, and did enjoy
>> it, but Torg is
>> much more hassle free IMO.
>>
>> -Benn Grant
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-
>> >bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Phil Dack
>> >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:15 AM
>> >To: torg at roadkill.com
>> >Subject: [Torg] Points-based
>> >
>> >One of my issues with Torg in the long term was the many
>> >different systems for resolving special effects - magic (at
>> >least 2 systems), pulp powers, pulp gadgets, psionics,
>> occult,
>> >miracles, cybernetics (2 systems) - and so on.
>> >
>> >I also found it extremely difficult to balance beginning
>> >characters, particularly when moving beyond templates to
>> >allowing players to design their own characters.
>> >
>> >I've always felt, for these reasons, that Torg would probably
>> >benefit from some points-based underpinning like GURPS or
>> Hero
>> >System (or M&M for that matter). Has anyone in their personal
>> >house-ruleage ever had a look at this, and come up with some
>> >ways of making comparison? If not, I'm inclined to use the
>> Hero
>> >system because of the relatively generic nature of its power
>> >generation system to come up with equivalent values (the
>> chief
>> >difficulty being that Torg's scale is more logathithmic than
>> >Hero, so a +1 is of decidely variable impact)
>> >
>> >cheers,
>> >Phil
>> >
>> >
>> >
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