[Torg] Re: Axioms and PE

[Jasyn Jones]

  Sorry,I sent off the last email too early. My apologies.

On Jul 10, 2007, at 6:45 PM, Chad Dickhaut wrote:

> --- Jasyn Jones <jasynj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 10, 2007, at 9:32 PM, Chad Dickhaut wrote:

>> You are asserting that I am crusading for a change to the canon: this
>> is patently false.
>
> No, I’m asserting that your proposed changes invalidate portions of
> previously established Torg material irrespective of your intentions.

Only if you're referring to my proposed changes to Torg's metaphysics  
(unposted), not my new axiom charts. My axiom charts do not omit any  
PE-tools material that were included in the original Torg charts.

There was no such material in the Torg boxed set, I have declined to  
include such in my own axioms. That's not such a huge change.

Now, my metaphysics are a change, but not a huge one, and I haven't  
posted them or even discussed them in depth. What I was discussing  
was my Magic axiom.

> Whether or not that is a negative thing depends entirely on how
> attached one might be to those portions of canon.  For instance, I  
> like
> the idea that Kadandra has stumbled onto some of the workings of the
> Cosmverse without the intervention of a DD or E-shard.

And I don't, particularly as this requires bending the metaphysics in  
weird ways (PE are subject to the laws of physics.)

After all, those tools did nearly nothing. One gated Mara from one  
cosm to another, and the other was a Plot Device to (clumsily,  
IMNSHO) introduce the concept of "Earth has lots of PE" in the novel.

That's not a whole lot of useful or colorful stuff.

>   It allows them
> to be a palpable help to Core Earth without having all the answers
> themselves.

Just having a knowledgeable SK is as good as those two tools. Better,  
as a knowledgeable SK can impart knowledge of Glories, Story Seeds,  
etc., which is far more useful than "wow, this cosm has lots of PE."

> It allows a GM to build a scenario that pits Scitopianism
> against scientific hubris: where Kadandran science forges ahead with
> unshakable confidence precisely because of how much it *doesn’t* (and
> ultimately, *cannot*) understand.

This can proceed in any number of ways, "R"-eality tools are not  
necessary.

>   I like the idea of an ally for Core
> Earth who isn’t directly tied to the Apieros/TNO struggle

As do I, especially given my stance on the Apieros myths.

> (as would be
> necessary if Reality effects were only available through transcendent
> means),

Not true. All cosms have Everlaws, all have transcendental tools,  
including PE, Prateds, etc. Direct intervention of Apieros isn't  
necessary for that.

> an ally who has better reasons for not just stepping in and
> winning the P-Wars for Core Earth than “the Prime Directive/our
> philosophy forbids it”

All kinds of reasons can be explore, none of which require "R"-eality  
tools.

> (*shakes fist at Space Gods*).

8-D

>> This just isn't a crusade against the canon.

To be fair: it isn't a crusade, yet, and maybe never will be. If I  
ever finish my metaphysics, and if I feel like posting them, this  
might become a crusade against the canon, Lord knows I've launched  
plenty of others (Drama Cards, anyone), but it isn't a crusade right  
now.

>> It's only my refusal to
>> extend the material in ways I find obnoxious.
>
> Fair enough.  Likewise, my intent isn't to harangue you, but rather to
> explain my position further.

I do understand that this was your aim, and my understanding of your  
position has certainly increased. I hope is is true for you (vis a  
vis my beliefs) as well.

Also, I think this is the longest I've gone, in a discussion that  
deals with such a deep divide, without either party being offended or  
angered.

I do appreciate your fair-mindedness and level-headedness. Thank you.
---
Jasyn Jones
jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com

Check out Storm Knights, my Torg website:
http://darleyconsulting.com/games/stormknights/

"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson