[Torg] Jumping in Torg

[Benjamin Grant]

Yup, effects based games (as I mentioned in the last post) just don't add up. (IMO)

For me, the highest requirement above ALL else, is that the game be believable and authentic - that it respects the minds of those who participate in it.  It doesn't matter if magic exists or people can fly, the game STILL has to have an underlying bedrock of cause and effect, of logic and consistency.  It has to make sense.  Without that being attended to FIRST, the game becomes an inauthentic sham, a parody of itself.

Like the Heroes TV show has become (though I still watch it...)

I cannot see how Effects based gaming is compatible with the "Law of Authenticity".

For the record, to answer your recommendation for me to check out that list (HERO, HERO Sidekick, M&M or M&M Ultimate Powers) - you should know (for what its worth) that I have been gaming and collecting RPGs for 30 years, and have experienced multiple dozens of systems from the popular to the forge including those, and that multiple shelves of my bookcases contains well over a hundred separate systems.  My favorites?  Torg and Mage the Ascension version 1.

But I do appreciate your recommendation - it's just I got there years ago.  ;)  In fact, it's because of my deep investigation of Hero System - including an exchange with the writer, Steve Long - that I have concluded that effects based gaming is too flawed.

For further food for thought, I will rustle up our Super Speed Torg guy's power set up for the list.

Thanks. :)

-Benn Grant
eFix Computer Consulting
benn at 4eFix.com
603.283.6601


-----Original Message-----
From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Phil Dack
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:57 PM
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
Subject: RE: [Torg] Jumping in Torg



--- On Thu, 11/12/08, Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com> wrote:
> From: Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>
>
> Nevertheless, to divorce the ability to affect speed from 
> the ability to affect momentum is a severe logical disconnect
> for me – and my guess is that it would be so for many, which 
> is why it appears that they gave the Flash the fuller power 
> to affect both. 

Er. Logical disconnect. And you're playing a superhero game :)

> It also sounds like you would be restricting the proposed
> character from being able to do things super-fast as well.
> Ultimately, it sounds like you wouldn’t be having a Flash-
> style character in your game. 

Ah, it all becomes clear! Sounds like you're not a fan of the effect-based approach, which is fine. But, and apologies if this is wrong, but it sounds like you don't understand it particularly either. I strongly recommend you get your hands on either HERO, HERO Sidekick, M&M or M&M Ultimate Powers. They explain the game philosophy of effects-based powers far better than I could.  

Suffice it to say that most superhero games hand-wave the "do things super-fast" element of superspeed, because to do otherwise makes the power a game breaker. The flash could strip his enemies of all their weapons, steal a hand-grenade, insert up his opponents bum, punch 5 bankrobbers 100 times each and still get home before his newspaper falls to the ground. But that makes a pretty rubbish game. And a pretty rubbish comic book. Logical consequences are not always good stories...

Phil


      

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