[Torg] Jumping in Torg

[Phil Dack]

--- On Thu, 11/12/08, Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com> wrote:
> From: Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>
>
> With a POWER based game, if you have a power, you have a
> power.

For what it's worth, I think my terminology is more useful. Anything self-referrential is, by definition, non-explanatory: With a potato-based snack, if you have potato, you have potato. 

It wasn't at all clear to me that you had a knowledge of effects-based games, which is what this entire argument has hinged on, because you hadn't previously demonstrated that. Having demonstrated that you do know about the difference, I'm just amazed that you carried on the argument for so long. 

> What this means is that if you want the character to have an overall 
> power – such as the Power of Fire, you have to pre-think out every 
> EFFECT you want to be able to do, and buy *those*.

Then I strongly suggest you check out M&M, or read the multipower or variable power point rules for HERO, or indeed try any one of myriad options that flex this rigidity.
 
> EFFECT based gaming is favored by GMs that are afraid of or don’t 
> trust their players, or by GM’s that feel uncomfortable with the larger
> aspect of being a GM – dealing with the unknown and making rulings.

I favour effect based gaming. I am neither afraid of nor mistrustful of my players. I am not uncomfortable with any aspect of GMing. Your response is rude and ignorant. I prefer effect-based games because they are clear and empiric, they are easier to balance, they prevent intra-party conflict ("why is Bob's character so much more powerful than my character?") and they allow each character to build a specific package of powers with far more accuracy to the comic books than any "power" based system I've ever played.

> It would seem for fuller, more accurate representation of the super power
> usage we see in the movies and in books, that POWER based games 
> are better suited than EFFECT based ones.

To you perhaps, not to me. I've never seen any rpg list of powers which has allowed me to play the characters I read about in the comics, which is why when I first discovered the Hero system I was so enamored to it. 

> The deciding factor was that Hero System simply does not permit
> characters to buy or have powers, only effects.

Wrong board, but this is fundamentally wrong. All a power is is a series of effects. Hero allows you to build a series of effects. It may be more complex, but Hero allows you to do it. In fact, such is the flexibility of the system that it's almost a given that if you say "Hero can't...." that your argument is probably refutable.

> And after all, on the face of it, a supers game *not* based on Powers 
> as primary just (tom me) seems kind of pointless – like a concert without music.

I guess you're not a fan of Batman then? Effects-based games allow you to build specific, tailored powers. They're still powers, whether you build them from a kit or buy them off the shelf.

Phil



      
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