[Torg] Jumping in Torg

[James Knevitt]

I would argue that the first job of a GM is to make sure everyone's having
fun. If a GM picks authenticity over the enjoyment of all involved (both the
GM and their players), I'd start looking for another game.
2008/12/12 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>

>  Authenticity is the first job of a GM.  If a GM fails at this, nothing
> else matters.
>
>
>
> 1)      To me, Torg is the playground of people who play more flexibly
> than effect-based gaming – as witnessed by its consistency and universality.
>
> 2)      A superhero genre is not a license to dump authenticity.  That's
> what the Heroes TV show thought, and that's why it has fallen so short of
> its potential.
>
> 3)      The material at the flash wiki link I provided clearly
> demonstrates that the Flash's powers include momentum, not just speed.
>
> 4)      I have been playing rpg's for 3 decades, so I believe I know them
> quite well too.  Nevertheless, what they have or have not done is probably
> more a factor of streamlining for playability.  In either case, I have
> demonstrated utterly that in reality, speed is critical to determining
> distance covered.
>
> 5)      Even if the Flash doesn't build ramps, and even if his vertical
> jumping remains unchanged, his jump distance increases even without a ramp.
> Consider – I, in real life, can jump and spend one second in the air.
> Assuming that when the Flash's feet leave the group he doesn't slow way down
> due to authenticity, then 1 second – average human jumping hang time – is
> enough for him to travel truly legendary distance horizontally, even if he
> never gets more than 2 or 3 feet off of the ground.  The point being that
> even a weak human jump such as even I can do, as out of shape as I am, is
> more than even hang time to go very far when moving at the speeds that the
> Flash does.  And of course, the Flash is free to build ramps.
>
>
>
> This is kind of the over point, some GMs – perhaps like you – want the
> player to pay extra points to be permitted to use a clever new trick.  Other
> GM's – like me – want to reward the player's ingenuity, assuming that the
> character already has the ability to accomplish the building of a ramp in
> the blink of an eye and has the materials.
>
>
>
> Bottom line is if the player figures out a way to leverage his existing
> powers in a way that makes sense, I will not deny him the ability to do so
> simply because he hasn't paid the points.  In my games the points, such as
> they are, buy **abilities** NOT **effects**.
>
>
>
> Just like in Torg, where a 13 Intelligence is an **ability** that can be
> leveraged in countless ways, not a bundle of pre-determined effects outside
> of which one is not permitted to stray.
>
>
>
> Which is why I love Torg. J
>
>
>
> -Benn Grant
>
> eFix Computer Consulting
>
> benn at 4eFix.com
>
> 603.283.6601
>
>
>
> *From:* torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:
> torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com] *On Behalf Of *Phil Dack
> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2008 5:17 AM
> *To:* torg at justintimeadventures.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Torg] Jumping in Torg
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/08, Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com> wrote:
>
> From: Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>
> > I am not a fan of an approach that only suits people who want to play
> > Batman and tells people who want to play the Flash that they are
> > out of luck.
>
> If you'd said your issue was with games that require you to think of every
> possible effect in advance, or bog you down with detail, those are valid
> concerns. An effect-based game does not explicitly prohibit playing any
> particular character, even game-breakers such as Flash.
>
> To return to the original jumping argument, however, I'll go back and
> summarise the reason I disagree with your approach. But your mileage clear
> varies:
>
> 1. To me, Torg is more effects-based than powers-based, so when you buy
> super-running all you do is the ability to run (specific game effect)
> faster. You benefit from any direct game correlations, such as collision
> damage, but do not benefit from other correlations that may exist in the
> real world but do not currently exist in the game. That's a judgement call,
> and yours differs. There's no right or wrong here.
>
> 2. I think bringing real world physics into a superhero game is just plain
> nuts. There is no way for any bipedal creature to accelerate itself speeds
> of 7,500 mph and survive without significant protection (eg a spaceship).
> Given this is the case, why should it follow that the laws of physics that
> says "great speed = great leaping ability" follow, when the laws that say
> "great speed = great friction", "great speed = great mass", "great speed =
> great energy requirement" clearly don't apply.
>
> 3. I don't know the canon particularly well, but I'm familiar with Flash
> and followed the recent reinvention of the JLA for several years, and he's
> never leapt in all the books I read IIRC. Equally, I'm not aware of
> Quicksilver being known for jumping about the place either. I always feel
> that superheroics as a game is highly genre-driven, and there's little in
> the genre that I know that suggests either of them should be able to leap
> great distances.
>
> 4. I know superhero rpgs very well, and I don't know of a single game that
> associates running speed with leaping. Many of these games do a good job of
> recreating the genre, and in all my years of reading, playing and
> contributing to forums, I've never previously come across the suggestion
> that leaping should be linked to speed. Not proof that it shouldn't, but
> it's circumstantial evidence in support of point 3.
>
> And finally, a new point!
>
> 5. Superheroics is all about power stunts, as Travis or Smooge mentioned. I
> could definitely foresee a power stunt where a speedster ran up a ramp and
> leaped huge distances for a specific purpose. The difference here is that in
> the realms of a power stunt a superhero can achieve things that they would
> never otherwise be able to achieve (cheesy examples: think Batman producing
> a kryptonite arrow; superman flying backwards around the Earth to reverse
> time; Beast coming up with a way for Storm to conduct lightning through
> Wolverine's adamantine to turn him into a human electro-magnet). If Flash
> starts regularly building ramps using his superspeed, then it sounds to me
> like he's investing in a limited version of the Superjump power, and should
> buy it accordingly rather than trying to get it as a freebie.
>
> Now all of that is simply how I would rule in my game. But I am a fearful
> GM who loves effect-based powers because of the awesome control they allow
> me to exert over my puny players. Or something like that.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Torg mailing list
> Torg at justintimeadventures.com
> http://www.justintimeadventures.com/mailman/listinfo/torg
>
>


-- 
James Knevitt
jknevitt at gmail.com

"O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you."
-- TS Eliot, 'The Waste Land'
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.justintimeadventures.com/pipermail/torg/attachments/20081212/121b8181/attachment.html