[Torg] Grid Resolutions of Magically Enhanced Attributes

[Dominick Riesland]

Well, as you have someone here who has been digging through Torg's
magic rules for quite a while here, let me step in here for a bit.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:55 AM, Jerry S Fisk
<jsfisk at alphasynthetics.com> wrote:
>     With all that data lets get to upping Gerrold's Stats just before a Grid
> Run.  Let's see if I am interpreting all the rules right or not.
>
>     Lets start with the main stat boosters.  Using the Rituals from Pixaud's
> Gerrold would cast these when he woke up every morning.  I am using these
> spells since they have a duration of 24 hours.  After all if you're going to
> cast a ritual for an hour it should last longer than an hour.  But hey that
> is my opinion.  Plus it gives a better effect value in the end.

The Pixaud's spells are, in most cases, better than the versions found
in the basic rulebook. This is attributed to the fact that these
spells are supposed to be the best in the business. I will reserve
judgment on that claim until I process them into the Cosmversal
Grimoire.

>     With both of these spells you roll the die and generate a bonus.  Lets
> say I rolled a 13 for a bonus of +1 for the first spell, Perception
> Preparation.  With a total casting skill of 17 = Alt Mag 16 + 1.  I
> successfully beat the difficulty 7 and backlash 16.  Next I add my bonus +1
> to the effect value 18.  Giving me a 19 which I then compare that to my mind
> 12 and read the results on the Power Push table giving me a + 3.  And adding
> this to the already +7 in the spell.  I get a +11 to my Per.  Giving me a
> Per of 23 for the day

So far, so good. Note that the discussion of alteration on pp. 5-6
makes it clear that this is considered a transformation spell as
opposed to a modification. Under my overhaul, this will raise its
Axiom Level to 12, but that's no real problem as of yet.

>     Lets use the same example above for the second spell of Mind prep.  Only
> now my Per is a 23 giving me an Alt Magic total of 27.  So, I would have a
> total casting skill of 24 = Alt Magic  23 + 1 (bonus).  Again beating the
> difficulty 7 and backlash of 16.  Etc......

...now the problem comes in. You have run into the Principle of
Definition, as both spells are based on the same Arcane Knowledge
(folk). According to the rule on TREB p. 202, the effect value of both
spells is compared to see which one remains. In this case, both effect
values are the same, so only the first spell remains and Gerrold will
have a 23 Perception but not a 23 Mind. If the Ritual of Mind
Preparation had a higher effect value, it would have replaced the
Ritual of Perception Preparation.

>     You see where this is going.  I would end up with a Mind of 23 and a
> Perception of 23 for 24 hours.  I do not know where that +7 in the base
> spell comes from.  But it is there.  In the TRB and TREB the extra +7 is not
> there and the duration is only an hour.  Yes I could just delete the extra
> +7 and keep the duration but it is listed in the spell description.  Can any
> one tell me why there is a difference?  I checked the Aysle's Pixaud's and
> only found the ritual of Perception with the same write up as in the TRB
> with the exception of the duration.  The duration was 24 hours.

OK, this deals with several factors here, so feel free to ask for
clarification on anything you don't understand immediately. Before the
Aysle Sourcebook came out with the spell design rules, everything
either translated directly into an effect or went through the Power
Push table, with no clear indication of which was which. The Aysle
Sourcebook clarified when to use Power Push and when to apply the
effect directly. But for those situations where a Power Push was used,
the option was given to buy "extra" effect, up to the Extended Power
Push value of the original effect value. The Extended Power Push value
of 18 is +7. So, when creating Pixaud's Practical Grimoire, the spells
were redesigned with the extra +7.

The durations went up because, once the Spell Design process was
codified, the designers found ways to build the spells better.

>     Next Gerrold would cast the Improved Dexterity Spell to help his attack
> within the Grid.  For simplicity sake we will continue with a roll of 13 for
> a bonus of +1.  So I would still beat the difficulty of 10 and Backlash of
> 16 with a total Alteration casting skill of 28.  This spell has an effect
> value of 15 which I add the +1 getting a 16 total.  Comparing this to my Dex
> score (9) it gives me 7 result points on the power push table for a +3.
>  Adding this +3 to the built in +3 of the spell I make my Dex go from a 9 to
> a 15.

Perfectly fine, as Improved Dexterity is based on living forces, a
different arcane knowledge.

>     As you see the Improved Dexterity spell also has a built in +3 modifier.
>  The Strength (pg 69) spell uses the same system as the Rituals and this Dex
> spell.  It too has a +7 built into the spell.  However the Improved Magical
> Strength (pg 47) spell does not and it has a cap of 21.  The cap includes
> possibilities and cards.  Now I know there must have been a discussion on
> this subject at one time, but I don't remember it.  And there probably was a
> addendum for Pixaud's that I don't have.  So I will continue with what I do
> have.

All spells have three arcane knowledges that define what is called
their state path. The first is the pattern knowledge, which is the one
that determines what the spell affects and what you need to learn the
spell. The second is its mechanism knowledge; this determines where
the spell gets its power from. The third it its result knowledge; this
determines what the spell produces. For this discussion, I will list a
spell's state path in terms of Pattern-Mechanism-Result format. I can
go into more detail, but this is all you need to know for what I am
about to explain next.

The spells you bring up on pp. 68-69 of Pixaud's all have the same
state path: folk-living forces-folk. The Improved Magical Strength
spell has the state path of living forces-magic-living forces. The
first state path's pattern knowledge indicates that only folk may use
those spells. The second state path's pattern knowledge indicates that
it works on anything with living forces in it (i.e., any kindred). The
first state path's mechanism knowledge is not magic, so the spell uses
a Power Push, plus any pre-purchased modifier. The second state path's
mechanism *is* magic, so it applies the full effect value to Strength.
Result knowledges are not important to this discussion.

So why the cap at 21 on Improved Magical Strength? The answer is that
it is intended to be a modification spell, not a transformation.
Aysle's cosm limit for humans is 15, and the maximum basic Power Push
is +6, which yields 21.

>     Lets recap real quick.  My new Stats would be:
>
> Min  23
> Per  23
> Dex 15

Actually, you can get Mind or Perception to 23, not both. The
Dexterity will be 15 regardless.

>     How I perceive these new stat would translate into the grid:
>
> Net Attack = Best Attack Skill (Energy Weapons)  17(11)  +  Cyberdeck Ops
> adds 4  +  Response 3  + Attack Program.  It would be 17 for the duration of
> the Dexterity Spell which is 10 mins
> Net Defense = Best Defense Skill (Dodge) 17(11) + Cyberdeck Ops adds 4  +
> Response 3 + Defense Program.  See above for explanation
> Net Find = Find Skill  28  +  Cyberdeck Ops adds 4 + Find Programs
> Net Manipulation = Cyberdeck Ops  27  +  Response 3  +  Manipulation Program
> Net Stealth  =  Stealth Skill  16(10)  +  Cyberdeck Ops adds  4  +  Stealth
> Rating  2  +  Stealth program.  See Net Attack.
> Net Track  =  Tracking Skill or Per  23 (Per)  +  Cyberdeck Ops  4  +
>  Response 3  +  Tracking program

Sounds good, assuming you kept Perception instead of Mind.

>     Net Attributes are all mental and are different as follows:
>
> Str  12  (Min)     23
> Dex  12  (Per)    23
> Tou  12  (Min)    23
> Per  12              23
> Min  12              23
> Cha  7                 7
> Spi  10               10

Remember, you only get one of Perception and Mind, as the spells were
based on the same knowledge. In the case of skills, you would prefer
Perception; here in Net attributes, Mind is preferable.

>     This all sounds super human to me.  But is that not what magic is
> supposed to be used for?  I don't remember reading anywhere that magic could
> not raise your attributes above your cosm limits.  So if there is a rule out
> there please let me know.  Either way I may write a short story about
> Gerrold's solo run.  It is what I used to do when I was actually playing.
>
> Thanks again and everyone have a happy and safe holiday.  :)

Magic can raise things above cosm limits, but even then there are
limits, as I've shown above. Except for a run-in with the Principle of
Definition, it seems to be good. Just remember that anything you can
do, your enemies can do too...

Enjoy Torg and feel free to keep asking about stuff. When I get there,
I'll post the Cosmversal Grimoire entries for those spells, if I
remember.

Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"There are always possibilities, my sergeant told me. But he never had
his possibilities torn away like wings from a fly."