[Torg] Announcement: Compleat Magick

Wed Jul 2 09:06:00 EDT 2008

Dont know how it might change the state path, but a mechanism of True Knowledge would presumably allow the message to travel instantaneously, as if teleported, meaning that speed would become an irrelevant factor? The message is impressed in the ward, then when the spell triggers it alters the TK of the message meaning it reappears in the desired location. The 40 second delay might then be put down to a 40 second pause before the message itself was recorded (*whispers to his wizard colleague* "Is this switched on yet? What? It's already running? But I'm not ready....")

A ward always has a divination element, but doesnt mean it's a divination spell. Can't remember the details, but if the effect of the ward is to deliver a message, its the delivery of the message which defines the spell - perhaps Apportation/Inanimate Forces (sound) - which has a Divination/Folk ward element? However, I'll confess, although I once felt I was nearing guru status as far as the magic system is concerned, that was many years ago now and I'm very rusty!!

----- Original Message ----
From: Dominick Riesland <rabbitball at gmail.com>
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
Sent: Tuesday, 1 July, 2008 5:46:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Torg] Announcement: Compleat Magick

I understand where you are coming from. However, the way I'm going to
be able to get there is to play with the spells on a case-by-case
basis and develop a sense of what works. Here's a sample from the
Cosmversal Grimoire:

Message Ward
Source: Possibility Chalice Adventure, p. 51
Comments: This spell travels to a point, where it detects folk to
discharge its message. The message itself is small enough that it
could have been sent at the listed Axiom of 12, but this spell is a
ward, and therefore needs to be Axiom 15. In addition, the spell
description listed states that the effect always arrives 40 seconds
after the casting of the spell, even though the bonus number goes to
range. This means that the bonus number is modifying both range and
speed; a clear violation of Aysle's Magic Axiom. Also, it uses
apportation as a process theorem, a trick that isn't available until
Magic 17.
    For the spell to have performed the task it did within the
adventure, it would have needed a bonus number of 15 to reach from
England to Thailand (6,000 miles). This is acceptable, however,
because the assumption is that the sorcerer casting the spell was in
possession of the Possibility Chalice at the time, an eternity shard
that can donate Possibilities on its own to aid in effects that
enhance communication. Therefore, the only changes to the spell will
be to correct the Axiom rating and to remove the variable speed.
(Given that its listed speed is 1.5 miles per round, it can still
reach any point on Earth within 36 hours, making it quite useful.)
    The pattern is correct; it searches for a pattern of folk within
earth. As such, the best mechanism to use is light, as it forms the
most natural bridge between these two knowledges. The effect is
acceptable at 0; the message is released once triggered and remains
for the duration of the spell. No skill roll is needed to hear the
message. The spell going off in the presence of a non-folk is
attributable to the ward component failing its check miserably when
trying to determine if the cat is a folk. With no other guidance, the
assumption is that "presence" is defined to be a distance value of 1
meter (value 0). A ward detection value of 11 is assumed; the DN of
identifying a living creature that isn't a folk as not being one is 0;
therefore, this spell can misfire as stated in the spell description.
The casting time lists a time value of 16, but says 1 hour (value 18).
This version assumes the one hour cast time is correct.
Spell Summary:
    State FO-LV-LT-IN-EA + ward (21) - 20 = [1]
    Pattern: effect 0 + area 0 (0) - 20 = [-5]
    Control: divination 8 + folk ward 11 + effect 2 (21) - 20 = [1]
    Apportation: range 20 + speed 17 (37) - 20 = [17]
    Duration (29) - 20 = [9]
    Basic Complexity: divination 17 + process 37 + sum 25 - cast time 18 = 61
    Theorems (21 weeks total): apportation +1 (2), control +1 (3),
contagion (3), voice (4), similarity (5), concentration (6) = 38
[Backlash 24 difficulty 14]
Description: Message Ward
    Axiom: Magic 17
    Skill: divination/folk 20

    Backlash: 24
    Difficulty: 14
    Effect: 0
    Bonus Number to: range

    Range: 20 (6 miles)
    Duration: 29 (one week)
    Cast time: 18 (1 hour)
    Manipulation: apportation, control
    This ward may be placed on an earthen structure and enchanted with
a message. The magician must mix blue dye into clay while reciting the
message and concentrating on the desired location throughout the
casting of the spell. At the conclusion of the spell, he slams the
clay mixture onto the ground. If the intended structure is within
range (as determined by the range modified by the bonus number of the
spell), the spell effect will travel to it at a rate of 1.5 miles per
combat round (540 mph). Upon reaching the destination, a blue ward
will be visible.
    Any living creature that passes within one meter of the ward
causes the ward to make a divination magic check using a skill of 11.
If the check is positive, it correctly identifies whether the creature
is a folk.  When it identifies something as a folk, the message is
released. It continues to broadcast the message as long as there is a
folk (or another creature incorrectly detected as folk) within one
meter of the ward, or until the duration runs out, whichever comes
first.

Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Speaker, 5-Color Rules Committee
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"There are always possibilities, my sergeant told me. But he never had
his possibilities torn away like wings from a fly."

2008/7/1 Phil Dack <philipdack at yahoo.co.uk>:
> I think what I mean is that there ought to be a more comprehensive list of
> permitted mechanisms for different effects. Firstly, by defining the core
> effects, of which there are only a certain number. Ars Magica's five verbs
> are a good starting point (Create, Change, Control, Destroy, Know) and link
> fairly closely with Torg's 4 Magic Skills but there are a number of
> subsets: Change includes Drain/Boost and Transform. Control includes
> Movement powers and Domination. Destroy includes Damage and Dispel. Another
> good reference for Effects is the Hero System and Mutants & Masterminds, two
> systems that deal almost entirely in effects.
>
>
>
> That should get into a position where we know what relationships there are
> between effects and mechanisms, where there are limits (e.g. flight spells
> must use X as mechanism, spells that drain abilities must use Y), where
> there are exceptions and where there are no limits. That would just add a
> bit more coherence to the system as I see it. But it's my perspective, and
> I'm basically thinking I can trick you into doing a piece of work I've been
> wanting to do for years :)
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