[Torg] 3 New Initiative Systems for Torg: Simple, Standard, and Perfect

[Phil Dack]

I have one question for you - How much will your game benefit from this additional complication that can't be achieved through GM fiat and a touch of common sense?
As I understand it, the activity a player carries out in a round is somewhat abstracted. In the flurry of a conflict, people are moving, ducking, responding subconciously to flashes from their peripheral vision and sounds around the corner. No character is just standing still and firing a pistol or triggering a teleport. Initiative reflects where, in the overall activity taking place that round, the character is able to carry out the main thing they want to do. Otherwise, each round would be 1 second long and players would be able to fire off all of their ammunition in the time it takes to make a single Taunt.
If you want a player to have a teleport that activates at the merest thought, let them, and play your game accordingly (although perhaps Hiro's teleport from Heroes is a better example to use, which clearly takes time and concentration to activate*). Similarly, if you feel someone can act outside of initiative because of time they've spent preparing an action previously, let them. I think over-complicating the entire initiative system to account for exceptional circumstances just adds extra layers of complication that in the long run won't benefit your game in the slightest.

cheers,
Phil
* If it were me, and a player wanted a teleport that took the merest thought to activate, I'd let them... but just as our limbs occasionally have random muscular twitches, so too (on a setback line perhaps) might the teleport trigger on the merest thought. And I would hate to imagine what would happen if that PC was prone to sleep-walking....

----- Original Message ----
From: Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com; Jeff Clough <jeff at chaosphere.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 18 June, 2008 1:33:26 AM
Subject: [Torg] 3 New Initiative Systems for Torg: Simple, Standard, and Perfect

All this discussion about Initiative in Torg has led me to ask, "If I were designing the Initiative system for Torg, what would I come up with."  This post is the beginning of that answer.

Note that the ideas here have obviously not been play-tested, and should be consider pre-alpha - working out the core concepts of the system, but not yet perhaps consisting of a fully detailed and fully implemented system.  Some sections are even more off-the-cuff and are so noted.

Also note that while I am wild to hear what you guys think of all this, I have to admit I am not open at all to being told that this is unnecessary, or a waste of time, or that I should use the rules as written.  This post has a starting point of trying something *different* with the initiative system, to permit some things that are not now possible, and to approach the subject more generally and comprehensively.

The first thing I thought was that different gamers have different needs.   Some people want things extremely accurate, even if that slows down the game.  Some people want things extremely simple and fast, even if that leads to some loss of granularity and over-generalization.  And some people want a little of both.  That's why I have come up with three separate initiative system called Simple, Standard, and Perfect.

Note:  Torg treats dramatic encounters (where the players are facing a significant or possibility-rated foe) and standard encounters (where the players are facing unimportant ords) differently for the purposes of initiative, favoring foes during dramatic encounters but favoring the players during standard encounters.  I have not implemented that feature in any of the three following systems, but it would be easy to add it into the Simple and Standard Initiative Systems:  just add 5 to the players initiative for standard encounters, and add 5 to the antagonists initiative for dramatic encounters.

The Simple Initiative System

All characters start with a 20 initiative.  When going into round by round action, each character makes a roll to generate a bonus number, applying to the 20.  That becomes their base initiative until the end of the round-by-round action.  

Every time a character performs an action, the GM assigns the action one of the following five Initiative Modifiers:  Very Slow -6, Slow -3, Normal 0, Fast +3, Very Fast +6.

The following sums up the guidelines for how the GM assigns Initiative Modifiers:

	* Very Fast gives you a +6 to initiative if your action is as fast as: thinking a thought, blinking, pulling a trigger or pressing a button you are already primed to do, etc.
	* Fast give you a +3 to initiative if your action is as fast as: one simple math operation like adding two numbers, aiming and firing a gun with a -3 AV penalty, firing a gun at a target in the direction the gun is already pointing, pressing a button near you, any other simple action
	* Normal gives you a +0 to initiative if your action is as fast as: a simple math process involving several steps like adding a large group of numbers, a standard attack with a standard weapon, a standard action or skill roll.
	* Slow gives you a -3 to initiative if your action is as fast as: complex math like finding an average, drawing and firing your weapon, swinging a large, cumbersome, and/or heavy weapon like a great axe or a broadsword.
	* Very Slow gives you a -6 to initiative if your action is as fast as: sophisticated math like solving an equation; picking up a disassembled weapon, assembling it (assuming you know how) and firing; closing to melee then executing a melee attack.This is only a set of guidelines off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

So in a scene where Andy has has gun out, aimed at Brad and is ready to fire and Brad's gun is in it's holster, let's say that both characters try to shoot each other.  When this scene started Andy rolled a +1 for his Initiative Roll, where Brad rolled a +2.  This makes Andy's base Initiative 21 until he comes out of round-by-round.  Brad's is 22.

In this particular round, Andy's action is Very Fast, so he gets a +6 to his Base Initiative this round, for a total of 27.  Brad's action is Slow (since he has to draw then fire) so his Initiative gets a -3 for a total Initiative this round of 19.  Therefor, Andy gets to fire first.  He doesn't *have* to act before Brad - he can hold his action and act later in the round at no penalty.  But he can act first if he wants to since he has the higher total.

What if Andy want to act reactively or interruptively?  What if Andy does not want to shoot Brad, but will try to interrupt Brad's attack action if Brad tries anything?

In order to successfully interrupt an action you must take a further -3 penalty to your Initiative this round (because you are reacting instead of acting.)  Given the above scene, Andy's 27 to act becomes a 24 to react - which is still greater than Brad's 19, so Andy's action can resolve before Brad's does.  Note:  Interrupting an action does not necessarily prevent the action that is interrupted, but can render the interrupted action no longer possible, such as if Andy kills Brad in one shot.

<<The following section about refreshing your Base Initiative is highly under development - what do you guys think?  Should it just be one or the other?>>

 If one wants to improve one's Base Initiative in the middle of round-by-round action, there are two ways I have thought of:  

	* Spend an entire action doing nothing but passive defending and you can add 3 to your Base Initiative.
	* Spend an action doing nothing but passive defending and you can reroll your Initiative bonus number, keeping the better bonus number, old or new.
In this way you can "refresh" yourself and take a new Base Initiative.

When characters leave round-by-round combat all Initiative numbers are discarded, and rerolled next time round-by-round is entered.

This is the Simple Initiative system.

The Standard Initiative System

This system is separate from the preceding Simple Initiative System.  Here's how it works.

At the beginning of the round, each character either decided what they want to do or decides to hold their action for later in the round.  Every character not holding their action rolls their Action Total.  For example, if Andy and Brad are both trying to shoot 2 Goblins, Andy announces that he will be shooting one Goblin while Brad announces that he will be shooting the same one.  The GM secretly decides that the Goblins are going to try to close the distance and claw at Andy.

Andy makes a Fire Combat roll, getting an Action Total of 18!  Brad gets a total of 12.  The Goblins's Melee attack both yield an Action Total of 10 each.

Now the GM uses the Initiative Modifier System , reprinted here for completeness:

	* Very Fast gives you a +6 to initiative if your action is as fast as: thinking a thought, blinking, pulling a trigger or pressing a button you are already primed to do, etc.
	* Fast give you a +3 to initiative if your action is as fast as: one simple math operation like adding two numbers, aiming and firing a gun with a -3 AV penalty, firing a gun at a target in the direction the gun is already pointing, pressing a button near you, any other simple action
	* Normal gives you a +0 to initiative if your action is as fast as: a simple math process involving several steps like adding a large group of numbers, a standard attack with a standard weapon, a standard action or skill roll.
	* Slow gives you a -3 to initiative if your action is as fast as: complex math like finding an average, drawing and firing your weapon, swinging a large, cumbersome, and/or heavy weapon like a great axe or a broadsword.
	* Very Slow gives you a -6 to initiative if your action is as fast as: sophisticated math like solving an equation; picking up a disassembled weapon, assembling it (assuming you know how) and firing; closing to melee then executing a melee attack.The GM decides that since Andy's gun was out and pointed in the Goblins' direction at the start of the round, so Andy's action is Fast, granting a +3 Initiative Bonus to Andy's Action Total of 18, for an Initiative Total of 21.  Seeing that Brad's gun isn't even drawn yet, the GM assigns a Slow rating to Brad's action, yielding a -3 Initiative penalty to Brad's Action Total of 12, for an Initiative Total of 9.

The Goblins meanwhile have to close the distance and then perform a Melee Attack.  The GM rules that the Goblins' Melee attack using his Claws is a Fast action, but since the Goblins have to close the distance first, that lowers it to a Normal action, which gives the Goblins a +0 for an Initiative Total of 10.

Now the GM counts down, starting at the highest Initiative Total - Andy's 21.  Andy's action clearly gets resolved first.  Note that Andy can choose to go later on - he gets to act on a 21 if he likes.  In this case, he does, and his action total of 18 stands, hitting a Goblin and killing him.

The next highest Initiative is the second Goblin's - a 10 - so the Goblin's scratches at Andy with his Action Total of 10, missing him due to Andy's higher passive Dodge.

Then Brad gets to go - Initiative 9 - and Brad announces that he wants to change his target to this Goblin, but still shoot.  Since Brad is switching targets, the GM gives Brad a maximum possible Initiative of the current Initiative count minus 1, but since Brad is last anyways it doesn't matter.

Which brings up the question:  What happens if someone wants to change their action?  For example, Andy rolls an 18 Fire Combat, but on or before his turn comes that round, Andy decides he would rather fire his crossbow?  Well he obviously can't use his Fire Combat Action Total to determine his Initiative order for what is now a Missile Combat Action, so the following rules apply:

	1. If the same skill is being used (such as when Brad switched targets, but was still using Fire Combat), than continue to use the same skill total.   Otherwise, A new Action Total must be rolled based on the new Action and new Skill.  Any resources spent to generate the first Action Total are spent and gone.  Any resources he wants to spend on the new Action Total are completely separate.  As normal, he then applies the GM given Initiative Modifier System(IMS) bonus or penalty (Very Slow, Slow, Normal, Fast, Very Fast) to generate a new Initiative Total. 

	2. The GM should assign a penalty based on the nature of the switch - switching targets but using the same skill would be a -1 while switching skill usage would be a -3.  

	3. The Maximum Initiative one can get is the current Initiative count minus the switch penalty above.  The penalty is also applied to the Initiative Total.  Note that the switch penalty never applies to the action or effect totals, only to max initiative and the initiative total.

	4. Then, if the max is higher than the total, use the max as the count at which the new action happens, otherwise use the new Initiative Total.Example:  

	* Andy is again firing his gun at Brad, and generates an Action Total of 18, spending a possibility in the process.  The GM rules that because Andy had to draw his weapon, he gets an IMS rating of Slow for a -3 penalty, yielding a 15 Initiative Total.
	* The GM is counting down Initiative from the highest - which this round say was Fred's Initiative Total of 17.  As Fred's action resolves, Andy suddenly remembers that only silver will harm Brad, and his bullets aren't silver!  He does however have a crossbow hanging at his side with a silver tipped bolt loaded in it.  Although he blew a possibility on the Fire Combat roll, it makes no sense to go through an action that can't succeed.

	* Andy gets the GM's attention saying "Wait, wait - I need to change my action." The GM says, "OK, Hold on until I get Fred's action finished"  The GM attends to Fred's action, and then returns to Andy, asking Andy what he wants to do? Andy says that he wants to shoot Brad with the crossbow instead.  

	* The GM says that the minimum switch penalty would be a -3, since this is a different skill, and that if Andy wants to reholster his gun first, the GM will assign a further -2 switch penalty. 

	* Andy asks, "Do I even have my gun out yet?"  The GM responds - you had an Initiative Total of 18 before the IMS penalty for having to draw your gun.  I am going to rule that you drew your gun on 18, and since we are now on the Initiative count of 17, your gun is out."

	* Andy says, "What if I just drop my gun while grabbing for my crossbow?"  The GM replies that that would qualify for the -3 switch penalty. Andy decides to just drop his gun.
	* The GM notes aloud that since the current Initiative count is 17, factoring in the -3 switch penalty, Andy's max Initiative is a 14, no matter what he rolls.
	* The GM also say that, as in most cases, drawing a weapon and then firing it is a Slow action by IMS.  This means that Andy's Initiative Total will gets a -3 from the IMS, and another -3 from the switch penalty.
	* Andy rolls really well, getting a 23 Action Total!  Applying both -3's to that number yields Andy's Initiative Total of 17.  However, since the max Initiative is 14, Andy will resolve firing his crossbow on 14, not 17.
	* If Andy had rolled an 18 Action Total instead, applying both -3's to that yields an Initiative of 12 - Andy's attack would occur on an Initiative count of 12.In the above example, by the way, if Andy hadn't realized right away that Brad could only be harmed by silver, then the GM would resolve Fred's Action on 17 as before, and begin counting down, "16..., 15..."  If Andy realized his need to switch actions and signaled the GM when the GM was on "16" before he hit "15", then 16 would have been the current count, not 17.  This would have given the above a max Initiative of 13.

Held Actions:  You never have to announce your actions until you are ready to.  You are always welcome to announce no action at the start of the round and instead simply declare that you are holding your action.  You may then announce your action anytime.  Your max Initiative however is the current count minus a penalty.  The penalty is equal to the IMS factor minus 7.  This is because you are only starting your action at the current Initiative count.  This means that a Very Fast action, with it's +6 bonus has 7 subtracted from it for a total of minus one - meaning that your max Initiative this round would be the current count minus one - or next initiative count.

On the other hand, a Very Slow action, with its -6, gets 7 more subtracted from it for a -13, making the max initiative the current initiative count minus 13.

A Normal Action gets a 0 bonus normally, minus 6 makes the max initiative the current count minus 6.

If the character prepares for their action at the start of the rounds, subtract 4 instead of 7.  For example, a player tells the GM "My character is getting ready to apply First Aid to whoever needs it first".  Since applying First Aid is Very Slow (-6), the held action gets a -10 to the current initiative count for when it can resolve.

If instead the First Aid player tell the GM "I'm getting ready to apply First Aid to Andy" he could save perhaps a further -3, getting a -7 to the current initiative count for its resolution.  Of course, if he chose the wrong target and needs to instead give Fred the First Aid treatment, not only will he lose the -3, he goes back to subtracting the full 7 since he was focusing on the wrong target.

<<OK guys we have a few problems, nothing insurmountable, but I need to point out three things:

First, I think that the above section on Held action may not be compatible with the previous section on basic Standard System Initiative.  That's a problem.  Where they conflict, I think Held Actions need to  be fixed.

Second, I need to have a system whereby one character can possibly interrupt another, that is, act after one character begins his action, but resolve before the other character resolves his action.  I have some ideas for this, but I have run out of steam tonight.

Thirdly, I haven't even gotten to the Perfect System yet - which I have much more complete than the Standard System, actually - so I will post that another time, perhaps tomorrow.

So I will not post what I have written so far - what do you guys think about its functionality?  Does it have any flaws or broken parts?  Any suggestions?

Thanks.

-Benn



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