[Torg] New Basic Skills

[Benjamin Grant]

>>>>>Ben wrote:
>>>>>How do you then solve the problem of having characters with high
>>>>>self-control but low Mind values?  Because of the people I know in
>>real life
>>>>>who exhibit high levels of what is colloquially called self-control,
>>>>>willpower, determination, grit, etc - most of them do not have above
>>average
>>>>>Minds.
>>
>>High skill adds. Thus if they are really stubborn, they have more adds
>>in that skill. Just like if someone was a crack shot, but otherwise
>>undexterous. They have alot of adds in the skill in question.

This is not a personal attack, just my own personal opinion - I do not find
the answer of "just buy more skill adds" to be an acceptable solution at
all.  I think that a character with an equal stubbornness but a lower Mind
score having to pay so much more just doesn't add up.  Consider two
characters, both of which are meant to have equal resistance to Charm and
Persuasion, and equal strength of self-control, but the first one has a 7
Mind and the second has a 12 Mind.

If all we have is Willpower then in order to be equal the 7 Mind character
must purchase 5 skill levels.  If the 12-Mind character has a +1 Willpower,
to have the same value (13) the 7-Mind character must have a +6 Willpower.
The cost of a +6 Willpower, is 1+2+3+4+5+6 = 21 possibilities (it's actually
somewhat different depending on factors like cost to get the initial +1 in
it and whether or not the character started with the skill.)

That's 21 possibilities.  Which would be fine, if it wasn't so blatantly at
odds with the fact that I see in the real world countless high
strength-of-will people who are nonetheless not of above average intellect.
There simply must be a solution, a second path to strength-of-will for those
who have it, but not a high IQ.

Let me float this idea out there - if you don't like having two separate
skills that do the same thing, how do you feel about making Willpower a
*spirit* based skill?  Or better yet, if and when someone takes willpower,
they can choose whether to base it on Mind or Spirit.

Because it may just be me, but what I see in the world is people with high
strength-of-will on account of high intelligence, and other folk with high
strength-of-will and no great intelligence to speak of.

Or to put it another way, a person with low intellect may be easy to fool,
but they are *not* necessarily easy to steamroll over - usually quite the
opposite.

You other comments were thought-provoking, especially the dexterity/agility
concept -  hanks for sharing them. ;)

-Benn Grant
eFix Computer Consulting
benn at 4eFix.com
603.283.6601


>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-
>>bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Sam Frazier II
>>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:00 PM
>>To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
>>Subject: Re: [Torg] New Basic Skills
>>
>>
>>>>>Another note: in our current game world of 1.5 years, there is no
>>magic or
>>>>>miracles, the only powers are superpowers.  So there is no Faith
>>skill
>>>>>taken.
>>
>>Well sucks for those low Minded people then. Sorry that is humor, not
>>meant for direct insult. It is just too easy to miss. There is
>>something to be said for a realm with more avenues of skill.
>>
>>>>>The biggest worry if one is going to get more complex is to not make
>>certain
>>>>>attributes much more useful than others.  Right now I believe, with
>>>>>exception of Spirit, they are fairly well balanced:
>>
>>>>>Str = Melee Damage and Encumbrance (potentially)
>>>>>Dex = Physical skills of control, Maneuver
>>>>>Tou = Damage Soak
>>>>>Mind = memory and analysis, as well as mental attack/defense, Test
>>>>>Per = well, perception, noticing things, gut instinct and intuition,
>>Trick
>>>>>Cha = first impressions, social aptitude and manipulation, Taunt
>>>>>Spi = lasting impressions, Intimidation - not much else
>>
>>This is one of the reasons I like Shatterzone, as well as the
>>discussion about TORG 2.0 Attributes, a year or two ago. Where Dex
>>(which is by all means the most powerful attribute) was split into
>>Agility and Dexterity. Where Agility took the skills which were for
>>personal body coordination (acrobatics, running, dodge) and Dexterity
>>was for more eye-hand coordination and the like (Fire combat, missle
>>weapons, etc) Shatterzone did that. Body, which mearged Str and Tou
>>together gathered steam as neither Str nor Tou had many skills
>>associated with it. A discussion about changes to TORG on this board
>>brought the Body attribute as a way to simplfy and enhance those two
>>attributes. That reminds me of a skill I added to TORG: Resist Shock
>>(from Shattezone) a Toughness skill. I'll describe later. Mages loved
>>this.
>>
>>Anyway if you worry about attributes more useful than others, you must
>>be worried about Dex. Most of us have, I believe.
>>
>>>>>By the way, this is something else I like about Determination - in
>>our games
>>>>>we find the utility of Willpower resistance highly important,
>>opening up
>>>>>another route to get that protection, through Determination and
>>Spirit,
>>>>>incentivizes people to consider an option apart from Mind.
>>
>>If I were going to allow Determination, I would specify a difference
>>between Determination and Willpower. One wouldn't cover the other and
>>they would be pretty specific in ability. I wouldn't allow overlap, or
>>alot of overlap such that one could be used instead of the other in a
>>majority of situations, for the specific reason of abuse. Seen it,
>>dealt with it, squashed it and let the player deal with disappointment.
>>There is an avenue available to accomplish the goal. It isn't like
>>Willpower is a Trained skill so it isn't expensive to increase.
>>
>>Resist Shock: Toughness: (Trained, but  untrainable: meaning it costs
>>double the normal cost, and no one can teach it to you)  Allows the
>>character to take additional shock before passingout and/or dieing.
>>Essentially the number of Shock you can take before the character
>>passes out is equal to their toughness. If a characther has the Resist
>>Shock skill, you increase that amount by the number of add they have in
>>that skill. Thus if someone has a Tou of 10, and a Resist Shock add of
>>3, they can take 13 shock before passing out, and 26 shock before
>>dieing. NOTE: A character can not have more adds in Resist Shock than
>>the Toughness attribute. NOTE: GMs should limit this to characters who
>>can justify the skill.
>>
>>SDF II
>>
>>
>>
>>
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