[Torg] Weird science question?

[Sam Frazier II]

These are comments from my Gadgeteer about my response from Benn's Two-Fisted Fred example. He has my "gadget building books (Terra, Nile, Land Below, Infiniverse Volumne 1(?)).


Let's see if I can get this to look right. *smile*

I should get him to join this list. I'm not doing this much more.


SDF II

----------------------------------


Here are my thoughts. Please note there was a “eureka”
moment partway through.
 
>>>How do skill gadgets
work?<<<
--We
use the Terra Sourcebook for our gadget use and creation. So once you have a
gadget, it has an activation cost which must be purchased --prior to use. After
that, you use the gadget with a skill which is appropriate for the gadget.
Effects are determined by the powers placed in the --gadget and occur after use.
Activation cost is only necessary once an adventure. Our gadgeteer has found
out having 5 gadgets are useful, but --expensive. He hasn't learned control for
when to use his gadgets and when not too. It isn't surprising he spends more
possibilties per adventure --than anyone else, thus the fewer possibilities
invested in his character.
These don’t exist. The super skill
power is clearly not intended to be used for gadgets and gizmos, so using this
line of thinking, one cannot build skill gadgets. This is a contradiction (oh
the irony) since the chart he fondly refers to is on pg 84 of the Nile
handbook. That chart cleary lists system limits for SKILLS. Quite a shocker and
I’m not surprised that I missed it, being as focused on powers as I was.
This is where he is getting his numbers from. They don’t all make sense,
but they’re here nonetheless. 


>>>There don't seem to be any
examples in either the NE or Terra SBs. Presumably they work like attribute
gadgets, but we're a little unsure on that, too...<<<
--Perhaps we've missed this one example in
my game, but from my understanding they would be boosting a skill. So similar
to --an attribute gadget. I"ll have to look that up when I get home.
 He is correct. There are NO skill gadget examples. There
seems to be one book missing from my research, as I cannot find Dazzle or
Ultra-sight listed in the Nile, Terra, Land Below, or IUV1.


>>>Hopefully the basic question
& answer is the same regardless of which gadget creation rules are used, NE
or Terra, and the version of basic rules.<<<
--I'm
going to suggest useing the Terra source book, with the Infinivese book, Land
Below, Nile, and another one I think for the list of powers.
See above.
 

>>>So for instance,
Two-Fisted Fred (PER 8, two adds in Evidence Analysis, total 10) wants to build
a weird science magnifying glass that provides Evidence Analysis. It has a
system limit of 8. He builds it, doesn't add any boosters.<<<
--I'm not sure I remember a power that gives
Evidence Analysis so I'm not sure where the system limit is coming from. I'll
give --you the benefit of the doubt though and assume this is a "Sherlock
Holmes" power.
Using Terra booster rules, this should
be a +PER booster gadget, not a +skill gadget. Using the chart on pg 84….it
might be possible. 


>>>What does that 8
do?<<<
--If
it has a system limit of 8, then that is Effect Value of the gadget. Well this
is making the assumtion during the building of the gadget the --Houseing Value of
the item is 8 or greater, and the Weird Science roll generated was greater than
8. So if Two-Fisted Fred (TFF) uses the --gadget to do his evidence analysis, the
value is 8 + Bonus from the roll.
/agree


--Now
If I'm correct in Assuming there is no power that gives Evidence Analysis Skill
as the effect, and I'm pretty confident there isn't, then this --would be
considered a booster gadget, and they work differently. Instead of providing
the skill at a specific value, they provide a boost off of --the power push table
(If my memory is correct) which gets added to the players skill.
Also true see above.


 >>>But there are times
when a gadget might add to the user's existing attribute, or skill or both.
The... Silk Panther? in the Terra SB has +2 climbing gloves. These don’t
replace his Climbing, but add to it.<<<
--Correct,
and this is what I'm thinking you are actually going for with this gadget.
Can’t find the Panther example anywhere. The +2
should come from a +2 STR booster or whatever.


>>>Two-Fisted Fred's uber-magnifying
glass would presumably be similar. He wants to boost his own skill: the
magnifying glass doesn't function independently of him the way a crane
does.<<<
--Well
the crane does need someone to direct it, but it does do all the STR Lifiting
by its own.
Boost his PER.


 >>>Maybe it has something
to do with the rules on gadget-armor that add to TOU rather than replace it (we
think), but we got a little confused at that point.<<<
--It
sounds like that is the point of confusion. I've been through Terra's Gadget making enough to know I need to go through it each time creating --a new gadget. 
Boosting armor is totally different. You boost the max
value of the armor or you boost the +TOU of the armor. One booster cannot boost
both, but different boosters can boost each aspect of the armor separately. Ie a
+# for TOU and a +# for max value. There is not a DN penalty here since there
isn’t a DN used for using armor. EA could have a DN for using the booster
since PER is needed to use the skill. Ergo a +3 PER in a WS mag glass gadget
with a +3 booster adds +1 DN for each use of the gadget and gives +# shock to
the gadget each time it’s used. The # of shock comes from the power push
result that gave the +3 booster.
 

>>>Of the options above,
C seems really really over-powerful. And A can be powerful for those skills
with high system limits, and make the actual purchase of personal skill adds
redundant.<<<
--E)
TFF uses the Magnifying Glass to boost his Evidence Analysis by whatever 8 is
on the power push table, and the gadget takes shock stated --on that push.
/agree … sort of JIf we use my mind
reading cap as an example, we use the system value of 20 as the effect value.
No rolls needed to figure out shock or a power push result. On the other hand,
my x-ray goggles do generate a WS roll and a positive bonus result translates
into shock read from the power push table. In each case though, the gadget’s
effect value is what is used, not added to a skill. BTW, let me know if I
develop Mind Reading as a skill and we can revisit this subject. J

--I
image the magnifying glass would be a booster, highlighting specific objects to
the character. 
Maybe.


>>>But B sometimes seems a bit
underpowered.<<<
--I
was somewhat confused by B. It isn't underpowered, it means the gadget was
built by a non-Nile Weird Scientist. A Nile Weird Scientist --would add boosters
galore to the thing to get that 8 system value up to as high as his Mind Weird
Science skill would allow.
/agree


--After
re-reading B for numerous times, I think that is what I said initially. If TFF
used the gadget for Evidence Analysis, then the Effect Value --would be 8. If TFF
didn't use the Gadget, his Effect Value would be 10 (8 Per + 2 skill adds).
/agree. See above/


      
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