[Torg] more NCI questions

[Benjamin Grant]

>>Benjamin Grant wrote:
>>
>>> As an aside, I created (I think its not in Torg proper) the concept
>>of taking-0 and taking-6.
>>
>>After 3E I took to calling it "take 11". Because a role of 11 is a +0
>>and because 11 is better than 10 so Torg is better than D&D. :)

Not to be a Torg snob (though I proudly am), but I am forced to point out that Torg would still be better than D&D even if we didn't go to 11. 

We go to 11 in our hearts!  ;p

>>> Another example is busting down a door - where they might not succeed
>>immediately, over time they could wear it down and weaken it, until
>>they bust it down.
>>
>>> How does this sound?  Is 6 too high for such an action?  Should it be
>>+3 or +5?
>>
>>I'd be inclined to go with a +3, same bonus you get from most cards.
>>Your idea in another post of using the Value Chart could also work,
>>(it can already be found in the Nile SB's weird science rules, though
>>they express it as using the Many-on-One table instead of the Value
>>Chart) though I would probably put a maximum cap of +5 on it, at some
>>point you'll encounter diminishing returns and spending more time on
>>a task doesn't really help you out any further.
>>
>>--
>>Kansas Jim, Torg guru (ksjim (at) sdc (dot) org)
>>Torg website: http://www.sdc.org/~ksjim/index.html
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Yep, I think what I may recommend to our group is going with the value chart up to a +5 max cap.  As far as whether the character has to decide up front how much time he is putting into it, or if missing the DN means an offset of time to succeed, that's harder to decide.  Let's say there's a trap on the lock, the lock is a difficulty of 12 to unlock, but 15 to unlock and disarm the trap.  If the character says he's willing to spend extra time and gets a total of 11, does he open the lock in 1.5 (for the needed +1) times the normal task attempt time, but trigger the trap?  Or does he open the lock in 6 times the normal time (for the +4) and disarm the trap as well?

I suppose if time is no object, and there are no surprises, you can let the player make a Strength check to bust down the door, and if it fails simply ask how long the player is trying that tactic.  If they name a period of time that is long enough, they succeed as soon as they get the total they need.  Of course, the player should not be informed as to the exact difficulty of the task.

For example, let's say they have a Strength of 11 and the busting down the door has a difficulty of 14.  They roll a -1 BN, and are out of cards and possibilities.

Their Strength total is 10, which is 4 less than they need.  Thus one option is just to say that the character *does* bust down the door, in six times (the measure of 4) the time of a single attempt - and if a single attempt = 1 round = 10 seconds, then it takes them one minute to batter the door down.

Now if busting down the door had a difficulty of 16, given the max modifier of a +5, no amount of time would be sufficient to bust down the door, assuming a Strength check of 10.

Another example: a Science(Electronics) roll to assemble a device.  The difficulty is 20, which the player is unaware of - although the player has been told that this task is very challenging even for an expert.  The character generates a skill total of 15.  Normally, the GM rules that a Science skill check like this takes 15 minutes.  Secretly, the GM knows that the player is five below what he needs, which is possible at the upper end of extra time.

Since getting the +5 he needs will necessitate 10 times the amount of time, the GM knows that the character can succeed on his Science roll with a minimal Success by spending ten times the amount of time = 150 minutes, or 2.5 hours.

What the GM can do is tell the player "after 15 minutes you still aren't there, but you feel like you may be making progress, would you like to spend extra time?"  Note that the GM would say the same thing even if the difficulty was 21, and the player needed an unreachable +6 time mod.  Of course, if the player needs a +10 or more, the GM might instead say "You don't think you are making any progress - maybe leaving this for another time would be best."

But in this case where the difficulty is 20 and the player got a 15, the GM starts counting time, "15 minutes, 30, 45, 1 hour..." at any point the player can tell the GM to that his PC is abandoning the task attempt.  However, if the GM gets to the right time - in this case, 2.5 hours - the GM informs the player that he achieved a minimal success.

Now, if the difficulty was lower, say a 17, the GM would announce a minimal success if the player held out for 17-15 = 2 measures, or 2.5 time quantities - in this case, 15 minutes times 2.5 = 37.5 minutes.  However, the player, in order to get a more than minimal success, may ask to keep the time running, spend ten times the base time needed = 150 minutes, get a +5 and succeed with 20-17 or 3 Result Points.

Of course, for non-dramatic not particularly difficult skill attempts, it is advisable perhaps that the GM not even allow or permit the character to roll and just use the base attribute + skill + time value.

Thoughts on this wonderful mess?

-Benn Grant
eFix Computer Consulting
benn at 4eFix.com
603.283.6601