[Torg] Improving Attributes in play: Edges

[Sam Frazier II]

>>Torg (and a number of other RPGs) fail to acknowledge this. If I was to
>>include circumstances as a factor in improvement costs, I'd allow for any
>>appropriate assistance to count towards cheaper rates. With a detailed
>>enough system, I might allow for characters to have specified preferences
>>for learning modes.

Ah, well there would be an Advantage for that actually which allows you to learn things at a cheaper rate. Well I remember having one of those for my Shatterzone game which uses Adv/Comp. I imagine Benn would use a Merit. Gurps uses an Adv for it as well, I believe.


>>Even so, only 21 out of the 100 skills cannot be used unskilled.

Damn, now I have to look a that up. Seems a little low.

*ponder* Ok I count 59, or 63 if you consider the non-attributed skills, for trained, and 37 for untrained. Out of the R&E book. Considering Storm Knights can learn/earn any skill, it seems our count is a bit off.


>>After all, if you've got Ayslish magic, you hardly need Nile-Egyptian
>>mathematics, but everyone wants to dodge bullets.

Actually it depends on the style of magic. After all Occult covers a great deal of magic as well, but the method of use is different, typically with different RP aspects, side effects, and results often enough. So I'd disagree with this statement.


>>The more critical questions are, how many trained and untrained skills do
>>the characters have in play, and at how many adds, and how commonly are
>>teachers available? Working out whether you have "shorted" yourselves is
>>fairly complex.

I have some players with more untrained than trained, some vise versa, and some with a balance between the two. Teachers are available where you'd think they'd be available. The higher the add, the more difficult it is to find a teacher. The more cosm specific the skill, etc etc...every variable plays a part in to how, when, where, etc etc a teacher would/could be available. Their connections (which are earned as enemies are) help alot as well.  


>>> > >>What you're really doing is screwing over the mages and 
>>> > priests. All four
>>> > >>magic skills, Faith and Focus are trained skills.
>>> > And Martial Artists, Weird Scientists, Doctors, Occultists, 
>>> > Psionists, etc, etc...It isn't screwing, it is investing. 
>>> > Those skills are inately more powerful than the unskilled 
>>> > brethren. Their results on the Effect Values are 
>>> > significantly higher with a higher success rate. I have 
>>> > enough experience playing to game (even under this appearent 
>>> > House rule) to see that.

>> If you start from the assumption that the base game is balanced, you've
>> damaged that balance. If you assume the base game is not balanced, you may
>> have corrected the imbalance. Meh. Choose your poison.

Actually the balance isn't in question. After all I treat NPCs the same as PCs when it comes to the skills, so the balance is stable enough. I can see it working the way you mentioned, but after 15+ years of playing either TORG, Shatterzone (TORG derivative), and MasterBook (piss poor derivative of TORG and Shatterzone), and we've used this method every time, I must say it doesn't fix or break either. But rather slows down character advancement. We haven't had an issue with it, nor have I heard an argument to show it would break or fix something.

Sort of like our Long Range Contradiction House rule. Doesn't break or fix anything, but puts an emphasis on a different part of the game.

>> > Dex based skill I'm assuming. After all Martial Artists, 
>> > Nile's Powers, All magic skills, Faith and Focus, Reality, 
>> > etc etc are combat skills.

>> I was referring to skills whose purpose is combat - melee weapons, unarmed
>> combat, dodge, fire combat, that sort of thing. Faith, Focus, Reality and
>> such are skills whose primary purpose is other than combat, but which happen
>> to be useful in combat. Yes, I know that players tend to focus on how skills
>> can be used in combat, and select skills accordingly. Nevertheless, I was
>> referring to a valid categorisation.

Faith and Focus: See Lava Storm, Earthquake, Banish etc....Miracles are not all pre-post-support fight like sooth, inspiration, bless, etc They are very combat orientative and as useful, if not more so, than Dex based combat skills

Reality: Throw a gernade, set a charge, envoke a reality storm...again very useful in a combat.

Magic: Need I actually describe the usefulness in combat.

Psionics: Eerrr gee again do I need to describe how powerful starting a fire, levitating/throwing objects, etc are useful in combat?

I mean really, you can't honestly sit there and tell me that Faith/Focus, Realtiy, etc don't have a primary purpose or have a valid categorisation in combat. If so, I feel for your group which must be sooooo short handed in combat.


>> > Of course cross-cosm skills are considered trained too. 
>> > Energy-Weapons would be untrained for a Cyber Papist, as 
>> > would Computer-Usage for a Core Earther, but an Orrorshian 
>> > would cosnsider those trained skills. 

>> They have increased cost under the standard rules as well, though, at least
>> for the first add.

I reckon they do don't they. *smirk*

SDF II