[Torg] Improving Attributes in play: Edges

[Chris]

The difference in game experience, in my opinion, of reducing a number by 5
rather 20 is that reducing the costs for early attribute increases is that
it makes the game that much easier. Have you thought of applying the edge
rules to any of the bad guys who have a load of possibilities? Are you
increasing the stats of the players early without increasing the stats of
the opponents they face, or the non-combat challenges? If you're increasing
the stats on the players earlier, the challenges they face should be
somewhat harder. Otherwise, they aren't getting the experience that was
meant for them, they are getting a watered down version. That is how I see
it.

On a different topic, I don't recall if you ever mentioned how the edge
points work with race limits, and I'm assuming that you have either
completely swapped out the original method of increasing attributes in favor
of edges, which would make it simpler, but if you allow both, do edges allow
one to obtain a limit in their attributes and then have edges that push them
beyond (ie human with DEX 13 +4)?

Those are things that I don't think were mentioned, but being assumed by all
to be a certain way.

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Travis James Hall <
travisjhall at optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com
> > [mailto:torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of
> > Benjamin Grant
> > Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2008 3:16 AM
> > To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
> > Subject: RE: [Torg] Improving Attributes in play: Edges
> >
> > >>> >>Why? What is achieved, in terms of improving the experience
> > >>> of the game
> > >>> >>for
> > >>> >>the participants, in allowing people to "do a little minor
> > >>> tweaking"?
> > [...]
> > I thought it was pertinent,
>
> It might become so, but not to that question. I say these things because
> organising one's thoughts is important when performing analysis. Does
> reducing a number on a piece of paper by 5 provide a significantly
> different
> game experience from reducing a number on a piece of paper by 20? No, it
> really doesn't - not on it's own. So leave that out. When discussing the
> experience of the game for the participants, speak of factors that affect
> the experience of the game for the participants.
>
> > >>> I also think that only after playing a character for a bit
> > >>> can one sometimes discover where the character stats are "soft".
> > >>>
> > >>> I think that's my motivation.
> > >>
> > >>Okay, so you recognise the issue of character concepts
> > possibly being
> > >>not
> > >>fully formed at the start of play, and you wish to improve the game
> > >>experience by allowing players to overcome this issue -
> > keeping their
> > >>characters not-quite-finished until they have at least a little
> > >>experience
> > >>playing them.
> >
> > It's not just about character concepts that aren't fully
> > formed though, although that's part of it.
>
> That's the part you gave. I can't work with anything other than what you
> say.
>
> > I guess I simply value the opportunity for some
> > small character growth at the attribute level.
>
> Game experience. Does which number on a piece of paper changes, when
> isolated from everything else, affect game experience? No.
>
> > Some interesting thoughts there, for which I thank you.  Idea
> > 2 would be
> > fine and is more or less numerically equivalent to what I am
> > doing now,
> > although what I would actually do is grant them an extra
> > attribute point and
> > the end of each Arc, not session, for the first two.
>
> So why aren't you doing it? It is definitely easier to do, and you haven't
> identified any cons. Or is this analysis incorrect or incomplete?
>
> > Idea 3 off the top of
> > my head seems like overkill - 50 extra possibilities, wow?
>
> Hence the "personal criticisms" you snipped. A Torg PC has an average
> attribute of just over 9, so the cost of increasing an attribute by 1 is
> about 30 Possibilities. Thus, 50 extra Possibilities is actually less than
> what Idea 2 gives out. You seem to see "50" in an email and find the idea
> shocking. You need to do the maths to understand just what such a number
> means.
>
> > 4
> > and 5 are a
> > little too front loaded for my taste, though creative - what if the
> > character realizes only later in its life that it wants to buff, say,
> > Spirit?
>
> Then none of the five ideas helps. As noted, your players aren't dumb
> enough
> not to spend their earliest Possibility awards on the ultra-cheap
> attributes
> if you use your edges. So, the cheap edge won't be available later in the
> character's life.
>
> > What about something like this
>
> What about it? I asked you for the analysis, and I don't intend to do it
> for
> you now. There's a reason for that.
>
> Travis Hall
>
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