[Torg] That D&D thing

[Sam Frazier II]

Phhhbbtt I have no interest in it, this is just something a friend of mine, whom knows both systems quite well, had to say about it.

Just thought I'd share.

SDF II




________________________________
From: Jon Woodman <drjon at minnesota-twins.net>
To: Sam Frazier II <sdf_ii at yahoo.com>; torg at justintimeadventures.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:34:26 AM
Subject: RE:[Torg] That D&D thing

Just my two cents, Sam, but I'd say another thing to consider in skill resolution, some things would have to be labeled as not doable unless you have the skill in question.  Anyone could probably make a try at defusing a bomb (maybe not such a good idea for some), but you probably need to have at least some magic skill in order to make a magic potion, for instance.  

That's how I keep it from getting into just being a dice rolling thing.

Jon Woodman




------- Original Message Follows ------- 
From: Sam Frazier II 
To: <torg at justintimeadventures.com>
Subject: [Torg] That D&D thing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:54:46 -0700 (PDT)

I asked a friend of mine about incorporating D&D skill resolution in TORG, here were his thoughts:
 
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D&D 4E made skill resolution a bit more abstract.  For one, it's less likely to fail an encounter just because you don't have a skill.  For example, if you have to defuse a bomb in Torg, then you basically fail if you don't have Demolitions.  But, you could use other skills, like Perception to find the most likely place to bury the bomb, Intimidate to chase people away so it can blow up safely, or Athletics to hurl the bomb up into the air just as it detonates.  Of course, those things come naturally in any game where you realize you're boned.  Nothing like not having a skill to try something new 
 
The skill challenge has been kind of made laughable by the players.  It has great promise as a promoter of RPing, but it really detracts from RP as players see it coming and then go into numbers mode.
 
The short of it is that an encounter has a certain level of complexity.  An easy one might be to get two successes before you get one failure. Something harder may require eight successes before you get four failures.  Or some other combination.  Each player announces what he's going to do.  If there's a skill appropriate for it, then he rolls it at a low DC.  If there really isn't a skill appropriate for it, then it might be doable with a higher DC (or not at all).  If the group gets the successes first, then they make it through.  If not, then something bad happens (usually loss of healing surge, but that depends on the circumstances).  
 
The problem with the skill challenge is that it's been done too many times.  It's kind of cool in Living Forgotten Realms in that it can be used in place of a combat, so modules can actually be run within 4 hours if there aren't 4 combats to sludge through.  But, so many authors rely on it, and they don't do it well.  
 
Example of a bad skill challenge:
A magic potion needs to be made.  There is no rush.  So, people with Arcana, Perception, and maybe History could all partake in the skill challenge.  But, inexperienced DMs and players will assume that everyone needs to participate.  So, PCs without those skills try to help with the potion, but they fail.  Then the lab blows up or something.  In reality, the wizard should just be making Arcana checks while everyone else watches.  But that takes away from the group setting, so everybody tries to participate even though they have no business doing so.
 
Example of a good skill challenge:
An old mine tunnel collapses.  The ground is rumbling, threatening more rocks to fall, so there is a bit of a time crunch.  People can use Dungeoneering to plant explosives they found, Perception to find a good hand hold for digging, Athletics to heave rocks, and Acrobatics to squeeze into some tight spaces to push.  If they make their successes, they get out unharmed.  If they don't, then they still get out, but they all lose a healing surge as rocks fall on their heads.  
 
It's a neat idea, but you know how some of those D&D players get…thinking creatively is not their strong suit.  So, they hunker down and roll dice.  It does reward some creativity, though.  For example, a skill might not be listed as a possibility.  If the player can come up with a good reason how to use History (because that's his best skill), then the DM may allow it.  Although, that can lead to some lame rationalizations.
 
In general, it's nifty, but it's also a crutch.  It's an additional rule to help support divvying out XP in something other than combat.  This isn't a problem for games that already give out story awards.



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