[Torg] Awards

Mon Feb 23 10:32:49 MST 2009

“I used to reward as writ, but if I was to get my campaign going again I'd change drama cards. They didn't work quite as they should, and meant that certain characters with a bit of luck (or by not playing as a team!) would end up with substantially more Ppoints than some other players. So I'd make drama cards a team reward of 1ppoint each rather than 3 for the player with the card.”

Since we now use Hero Points and Epic Hero Points, we give out 3 possibilities at the end of the Arc/Adventure for each unused EHP.  Seems fair.  (EHP can be used for subplots, Escape, or broken into 3 HP each.  Hero Points can of course be spent for most drama deck effects, except rally, leadership, master plan, subplots, drama, escape, campaign, and the like.)

-Benn Grant

eFix Computer Consulting

benn at 4eFix.com

603.283.6601

From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Phil Dack
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:22 AM
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
Subject: Re: [Torg] Awards

I used to reward as writ, but if I was to get my campaign going again I'd change drama cards. They didn't work quite as they should, and meant that certain characters with a bit of luck (or by not playing as a team!) would end up with substantially more Ppoints than some other players. So I'd make drama cards a team reward of 1ppoint each rather than 3 for the player with the card.

  _____  

From: Dominick Riesland <rabbitball at gmail.com>
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
Sent: Monday, 23 February, 2009 5:16:40
Subject: Re: [Torg] Awards

2009/2/22 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>:
> How many possibility awards do you see given out in general?  (Assuming that
> I am not the only person in a regular weekly torg game or three.)
>
> Possibility sources:
>
> Per session: Session Awards+Subplots

For me, usual award: 2-3 base, plus subplots as needed. This is per
Act, not per session. There is a fundamental difference. I have seen
an act take three sessions, as people bumble or step their way through
it, whereas I have also seen an entire four-act adventure end in a
single session. These generate different award schemes. But per act is
the normal timing.

> Per Arc/Adveture: Arc Awards + Glories + Dramas.

Again, this is my personal formula, which is always adjusted for
circumstances. I try to rate the adventure per the old Infiniverse 1-9
scale. As the lower values indicate abject failure, chances are those
results are treated as act awards. If the adventure is deemed a
success, the base award is the ranking plus 3 (with a minimum of 6).
Certain individuals may get a bonus (usually 1-2) for inspired
roleplaying. Glory and Drama are entirely up to the individuals to
perform.

> It seems to me than when using the actual drama deck, if one is willing to
> put the effort into it, one can manipulate the cards (by "using" them up on
> ancillary rolls) getting a "perfect" set – one Glory, and three
> Hero/Dramas.  Using that set-up, one can roll one's dice, add a possibility
> reroll, add up to 3 more rerolls from the Hero/Drama cards – that's a single
> roll followed by 4 rolls each of which must be at least a "10" and each of
> which yields an average of about 13.  If we roll an 11 (average) to start
> with, followed by 4 13's, that's 11+13+13+13+13 = 63, more than enough to
> play the Glory.  And if for some reason we fail to hit 60 through unlucky
> rolls, we can ask a fellow player to use a card like Leadership to play
> another Hero/Drama or two into our pool.  Or if that doesn't work, we can
> simply give up and rebuild our hand, trying again.

Now if my mental recreation of the Drama Deck is correct (currently,
my Drama Deck is sitting in a lovely deck holder, fully sleeved [in
sleeves designed for Magic: the Gathering cards] in a locker at the
university where I run my game), there are 10 Hero cards and 13 Drama
cards, 4 Glory cards, plus four Master Plan cards. In a standard deck
(i.e.one with no additions thrown into it), this represents 20% of the
deck that is usable in such a manner. Farming to the point where
someone has a "perfect" hand is certainly possible. (I've done similar
things in my playing days, and I've seen it several times as a GM.)
And even if it's not the "perfect" hand, Glory plus one or two
Possibility cards is certainly well within range of Glory, especially
if you start from a high roll to begin with.

> Long story short, every player benefit from a Glory roll – every time *any*
> player gets a Glory result, *all* players get +3 possibilities at the
> Adventure award.  With intelligent players, one would imagine that they
> would encourage each of them to get as many as possible, and to help each
> other do so when possible.

Glory is good, if you can get it. The question is one of whether you
can make it happen. Remember that the cards needed are only 20% of the
deck, and you need to assemble the right set and have them ready in a
Dramatic encounter. And if a group is that cohesive so as to work for
such an event, it doesn't hurt to give them a Glory once in a while.

> If putting in the card manipulation effort, it would not surprise me to see
> two Glories a session occur with four players – maybe even with three.  (Of
> course, this requires significant card grinding, and also means not having
> the cards/resources available for other things like rescuing the princess…)
> With four player (let's say) and two glories per session, that's 6 extra
> possibilities per player per session.

Whoa! That's nowhere even close to reality (no pun intended). Yes,
there is significant card grinding involved, but there aren't as many
chances for that as one would think. One or two Standard encounters
with card play, plus maybe three or four scenes worth of discarding
one card to get an additional card (or more, if someone burns Presence
or Action to improve a charm attempt, or maybe using Second Chance on
a failed lockpicking roll), and you might be able to assemble one
"perfect" hand.

Now just because you have a "perfect" hand, you still haven't scored
your Glory yet. The GM still has some say in matters. If this is the
first Glory of the adventure, there usually isn't much point in
preventing it. But if you are talking about the second Glory in a
session, and this is slated to continue through three more sessions
before the end of the Arc, it's time for legal intervention. Remember
that villains can counter Possibilities spent on roll-agains. So that
"automatic" Glory is no longer guaranteed. By limiting the number of
scenes before the Dramatic encounter hits, you can limit the amount of
card farming that takes place. And if the response to that is to leave
the mooks alive long enough to farm, there are ways around that too.
And then there's Orrorsh...

> That seems like a lot.  However, the card stack is a never ending resource,
> and so long as you use up a card and are not in round by round, you get an
> immediate new card, right?

Um, no. You get new cards at the end of a combat or scene.

> Now the group that gets two glories per session would be by definition
> almost a pedantic grindy group starying far from staying focused on the
> narrative to churn the cards for the glories, but *mechanically* that is not
> illegal play, yes?

The problem is getting the opportunities to farm. Remember, only
subplots get you new cards right away. The rest get replaced at the
end of a scene or combat.

> So if we figure a 6 session adventure, 2 Glories per session, that's 12
> Glories or 36 extra possibilities *per player* at the end of the arc.  With
> four players, that's 144 *extra* possibilities that the group gets.

In reality, I have never seen more than 3 Glory results in a single
adventure, and that one specifically said that if a certain result
took place, it counted as a Glory result regardless of the die rolls
or cards involved.

> It seems to me that with the rules as written and some moderate effort and
> intelligence, it would not be hard to get half that amount, or 72
> possibilities for the group (18 per player) at the end of an arc.  Does this
> match anyone's experiences?  If not, why do you think that is?

I think I have explained that well enough above.

> Now, as I have mentioned before, we do not use the drama deck – instead we
> use Hero Points (HP), of which you get three at the start of each session,
> and they only last one session.  This means that the most you can do to try
> to get a glory is use a roll, a possibility, 2 HP as rerolls, saving the
> last HP as a Glory card.  That's an average of 10 + 13(possy) + 13 + 13 (HP
> as rerolls) = 49, not enough for a glory.  This means that glories are
> harder to get with Hero Points instead of the drama deck – mostly since the
> Drama Deck is an unlimited resource, but you only get 3 HP per session, and
> any HP not used at end of session is lost.
>
> Does this mean that our HP instead of the Drama Deck approach is less
> abusable for farming Glories and Possibilities?

That depends on several other factors. I admit I haven't taken a hard
look at the HP system, and I really have too much to do to try to dig
through the archives on it, so I'm flying blind on this one. But from
what I'm seeing, you seem to be allowing the HP to act as a card of
your choice. That particular setup is more abusable, as you can then
create Leadership and Rally cards. Even without that, the fact that
you have Hero cards usable at will may be more abusable, because I
would probably choose not to use it as a springboard to Glory unless
I'm starting from a reasonably high value to begin with (25 or more on
the die roll, preferably 30).

Dominick Riesland, aka Rabbitball
Creator of the Cosmversal Grimoire
"There are always possibilities, my sergeant told me. But he never had
his possibilities torn away like wings from a fly."

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