[Torg] Skill Knacks in Play

[Benjamin Grant]

>> So are we saying then that during ups you are rolling 4d20, keeping (and
adding) two of them?

 

Not as such.  You actually have to roll 2d20, choose which to keep, and
*then* roll another 2d20, and choose which to keep.  This is different from
choosing 2 out of 4d20 in this way:  if you roll a 5 and 15, and *then* a 10
and a 20, you do NOT get BOTH the 10 and the 20 - one or the other.  Of
course, whichever you pick, you will get a roll-again, which is another two
d20s.

 

So you have to roll sequentially, two dice at a time, pausing to choose
which to keep.

 

>> Somehow, I feel like the guaranteed extra dice and the sheer fact that if
I spend a possibility, hero, drama, etc. I get two more rolls to pick from,
not to mention up results. The 180P debt seems like a pittance for what I am
getting out of the deal.

 

Hmm - let's say you buy 6 level 3 Knacks, accumulating a 180P debt.
Congratulations, you are probably now in debt for life.  And since you had
to Knack those skills up before using/buying them, this debt is probably how
your character starts.  This means that you will be getting only 2
possibilities as an award each session max, and each adventure/arc max,
until the 180P debt is gone.

 

If you spend possibilities getting rerolls for those Knacked skills, yes you
will rock at those - but you will be gasping for possies in every other way.
Need to reduce damage?  Are you out of possies?  Need a reroll on a non
Knack skill?  Are you out of possies?

 

Need to raise your meager starting skills or buy new ones?  You *must* be
out of possies now, so you are probably not increasing your adds for months
and months of gaming.

 

So I don't think that's a real worry.  I think players will be smart enough
not to get their characters into that kind of trouble, especially with some
guidance from their GM.

 

>> This is a bit wonky, but I suppose it's no worse than an adventure cost
with the benefit that it eventually goes away.

 

>>But it would seem to be that this doesn't address the other issue raised
which was every PC eventually getting a Knack. By spreading the cost out
over time it seems like this would encourage the acquisition of a Knack
since there's less 'pain' involved now.

 

I think this decreases the number of folks getting Knacks in two important
ways:  First, once you use or buy a skill, you CANNOT get a knack for that
skill.  This means that PCs have less and less of a window to get Knacks,
especially for core skill like determination, notice, dodge, etc.

 

Secondly, possibility debt is not a minor thing.  Only getting 2
possibilities per session/adventure means not being able to raise your adds
as much, especially at the start of the game.  It means staying in
"training-wheels"-mode longer.  A common urge for just about all my players
with a brand new character is the desire to start pumping up their skill
adds on their character's focus.  Sacrificing that - or at least putting it
off dramatically - if a very real tradeoff that I thin (again with proper GM
guidance) they will appreciate.

 

>>My own personality aside, and how my character(s) have run so far, I find
it hard to believe that characters will want to spend too much on Knacks if
it comes at the penalty of "You're getting 2 possibilities per session/arc."
This is because most will find the inability to upgrade their skills, buy
new ones, or simply get through their adventure with so few possibilities
available to them, to be a hassle that they would rather not deal with.

>>Example: It's great that I can now roll two (or more) dice at once and
pick my results from the lot, but I can't get any more adds in these skills
for the next 4 months of play. Not only that, but these other skills I
should have and don't, I can't buy, since I don't have any possibilities
left after that last session, since I spent the two I had trying to not die
to that dragon that popped up while leaving Aysle. (Stupid dragons freezing
our boat's engine repeatedly.)

 

This is where setting the right specific amount of "untouchable" possies per
award is important - I had started at one, but increased that to 2.

 

If 2 is not the right number, I would increase that if necessary to three
possibilities you get prior to your debt being paid down, etc - but I
*think* that 2 might be the right number.  Consider this:  If the character
gets one or two possibilities for a session award, none get taken to pay off
debt.  Sometime the characters get three or four, especially if subplots are
in play - however, the character is still getting at least half the awarded
possies in their pocket.  If we upped it to three, it would be almost like
not having to pay for the Knack at all, except during the adventure/arc
awards.

 

I am an effective gamer - what some might mistakenly call a power gamer.  I
tend to have a sixth sense for when the bang for the buck ratio is in the
favor of the player - because I tend to utilize it when I find it (as a
player) - so when I tell you that at the balance of being guaranteed 2
possies in my pocket, after which I have to pay off the debt, makes me
think.  If I only got one per award, I would never get a Knack.  If I got
three, I might Knack up most of my skills.  However, at 2 per award it makes
me think.  This makes me think that maybe that's the right balance point.

 

>>I didn't read Benn's original post closely enough, I thought he said that
two PP came off of each award until it's paid off, not that you only get two
PP per award with the rest going to pay it off. In which case yes, it's not
going to encourage people to pick up Knacks because that could be severely
penalizing for quite some time on a level 2 or 3 Knack.

 

I don't know about that.  Getting to roll 2d20 and keep the best *every time
you roll ANY dice for the skill* is a pretty nice bonus.  It costs 30
possibilities - which is not a small amount.  But for this you get almost
double the chance of getting a reroll 10 or 20, and a vastly reduced chance
of getting a bad negative bonus number - or even a mediocre one.  If I am
going to play a PC who is a crack shot, I am definitely going to think long
and hard about getting a level 3 knack on my Fire Combat.

 

Think about this as well:  with a couple Hero Cards and a Glory in your
hand, you get to spend a possibility and two hero cards, meaning not only to
you get you initial roll, you get 3 rerolls - and each of these 4 rolls is
going to be a pair of d20s, with you keeping the best one.  You can
virtually guarantee a Glory level result rolling 4 pairs of d20s.

 

Any, that's the thought.  But Glories aside, the level 3 Knack makes your
Fire Combat rolls *much* less random, and *much* more favorable, tilted
toward the positive Bonus Numbers mush more.

 

It might be *just* worth a 30 point debt - so long as you  still get to keep
at least 2 possibilities each award.

 

Maybe?

 

-Benn Grant

eFix Computer Consulting

benn at 4eFix.com

603.283.6601

 

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