[Torg] metapower vs advancement, reconsolidation

[Benjamin Grant]

> Did you reverse the names in this paragraph? It doesn't seem to fit
> with the
> preceding tale. I'll assume, until you say otherwise, that you did
> switch
> them.

Looks like it.
 
> I don't dispute that Torg does not give the player who takes immediate
> rewards more rewards later on.

Then you grant my point - Torg IS MVA (And if you don't fele comfortable
calling possies metapower, switch the "M" in MVA to something else, the
point is, you are forced to choose between success now versus better
advancement.)

> 
> > The only way to escape the dilemma is for the GM to always
> > make *certain* that when he awards possibilities, he make
> > sure that the result is option 2 or 3, that the GM makes sure
> > that well-spent possibilities always increase the award of
> > the spender by no less than that amount.
> 
> What dilemma?

If you asked what dilemma even now at this point of the conversation, one of
four things is true:
A - You didn't read what I wrote well enough.
B - Given my previous best effort, I cannot find a way to communicate to you
the fact of the dilemma through typing.
C - You read it well enough, but have some kind of block to getting my
point.

I am willing to concede that it could be any of the above.  I am
specifically excluding any real non-theoretical likelihood of the following
two options:
D - We are on the same page but don't know.
Theoretically possible, but seemingly very unlikely
E - There is no sacrifice necessary, there is no dilemma, spending
possibilities for non-advancement does not yield slower advancement.
Not only did you just grant the essence of my point that the above is not
true, like the roundness of the earth I am completely comfortable that I
have spent an inordinate amount of time and energy successfully proving the
obvious: that the truth is you have to sacrifice some amount of one to get
the other.  

So I only considering A, B and C.  If it's A, then go back and read it
again.  If it's B or C, than nothing we type can solve our disagreement.  I
guess until you say something new, I will have to be OK with your lack of
agreement to what I find obvious and multiply proven.

I can live with that, though it was not my hoped for result.

> Ben, you just wrote a huge post trying to prove that there is a problem
> with
> how Torg handles Possibilities. If you don't want to hear the analysis,
> don't put the subject on the table. You are free to talk about other
> meta-game mechanics any time you like, if that's really what you want
> to do.

Wrong.  I will write this for the benefit of the others, as it seems that
for whatever reason you Travis are not able to get my point:  Torg handles
Metapower and Advancement in a certain way, MVA.  YOU, Travis, have put
words in my mouth saying that I call it a problem.  I do not.  Of, the three
options: Metapower Versus Advancement, One Yields The Other, and They Are
Completely Separate, NONE of them are right OR wrong.  Just like out of
Poker, Bridge, and Go Fish, NONE of those games are *better* than the other
- but they ARE different and the real differences can be explored and
discussed.

By less defensive people, perhaps.

> Seriously, Ben, you need to get out from under your rock. Check out
> Masterbook, Star Wars RPG (West End version), Seventh Sea, The Babylon
> Project, Mutants and Masterminds, Shadowrun, Hong Kong Action Theatre.
> These
> are just a few off the top of my head, and certainly they are far from
> obscure. Even D&D eventually came to this party, with Hero Points in
> the D20
> Source Reference Document (originally appearing in D&D's Eberron
> setting,
> then genericised in Unearthed Arcana and made available for free
> download).
> 
> Travis Hall

I believe you have made this stake before with me on this list, I think.  I
will repeat myself:  I probably have more gaming experience than most,
possibly more than you.  I own multiple shelves of gaming products.  I own
probably over a hundred different RPGs, not to mention sourcebooks,
splatbooks, etc.  I have been doing this for over 25 years - closer to 30.
In that time I have always been playing multiple games, with few if any
breaks in my life.  I have some training and background in probability math,
story tropes and writing techniques, and have explored gaming from the more
plebian D&D and White Wolf, to the more obscure Capes, Prime Time Adventure,
and Universalis.

In short, what rock? Lol.

-Benn Grant
eFix Computer Consulting
benn at 4eFix.com
603.283.6601