[Torg] metapower vs advancement, reconsolidation

[Travis James Hall]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com 
> [mailto:torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of 
> Benjamin Grant
> Sent: Friday, 13 March 2009 2:19 AM
> To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
> Subject: RE: [Torg] metapower vs advancement, reconsolidation
> 
> > I don't dispute that Torg does not give the player who 
> takes immediate
> > rewards more rewards later on.
> 
> Then you grant my point

That point. That's a truth I've stated myself since my first or maybe second
post to this thread. (Can't remember order, late at night and can't be
bothered finding it right now.)

Indeed, it goes even further than that. If a player spends Possibilities for
advancement, he can choose to advance either skills or attributes, not both.
If he spends Possibilities during play, he can choose a re-roll, or to
reduce damage, or create a reality bubble, or tap an Eternity Shard; but he
can't do all of those things for the one expenditure.

In essence, a Possibility is a token of the game which is generally spent by
the player to get a benefit of some sort, and the player has to choose that
benefit, including choosing how immediate that benefit is.

> > > The only way to escape the dilemma is for the GM to always
> > > make *certain* that when he awards possibilities, he make
> > > sure that the result is option 2 or 3, that the GM makes sure
> > > that well-spent possibilities always increase the award of
> > > the spender by no less than that amount.
> > 
> > What dilemma?
> 
> If you asked what dilemma even now at this point of the 
> conversation, one of
> four things is true:
> A - You didn't read what I wrote well enough.
> B - Given my previous best effort, I cannot find a way to 
> communicate to you the fact of the dilemma through typing.
> C - You read it well enough, but have some kind of block to getting my
> point.
> 
> I am willing to concede that it could be any of the above.  I am
> specifically excluding any real non-theoretical likelihood of 
> the following
> two options:
> D - We are on the same page but don't know.
> Theoretically possible, but seemingly very unlikely
> E - There is no sacrifice necessary, there is no dilemma, spending
> possibilities for non-advancement does not yield slower advancement.

F - The player does indeed get only one particular benefit for each
Possibility spent, but I do not agree that this constitutes a dilemma (from
the point of view of a rule-maker).

There is a dilemma of sorts for the player: "Oh woe is me, I only have a
finite number of Possibilities to spend, and too much stuff I want to buy.
What will I choose to spend it on?" But there's no reason for the GM to
solve that dilemma for the player. In fact, I'd say there's good reason why
he shouldn't.

> I do not. 
>  Of, the three
> options: Metapower Versus Advancement, One Yields The Other, 
> and They Are
> Completely Separate, NONE of them are right OR wrong.

Right, and so you wrong a huge post, much of which was trying to show that
there is only one way to fix something that isn't broken.

> I believe you have made this stake before with me on this 
> list, I think.  I
> will repeat myself:  I probably have more gaming experience than most,
> possibly more than you.  I own multiple shelves of gaming 
> products.  I own
> probably over a hundred different RPGs, not to mention sourcebooks,
> splatbooks, etc.  I have been doing this for over 25 years - 
> closer to 30.
[...]
> In short, what rock? Lol.

Whatever rock it is that prevents you from learning, in almost 30 years of
gaming, that meta-game resources are quite a common concept and that Torg is
far from the only game to embrace that concept.

And if you really want to explore alternate takes on the idea, you shouldn't
be seeking them on a Torg mailing list. Take a look at forums devoted to all
those other games. Ask the people who are using those alternative mechanics,
and have been for a decade. This is the place to find out what Torg does,
and you already know what Torg does. When you've found out some things, and
want to incorporate them into a Torg game, this group is likely to be more
useful to you.

Travis Hall