[Torg] What a tech 23/24 diamond shop is like

Thu Mar 12 14:59:05 EDT 2009

Hey, Ben,

I had not perceived the traffic on the list in the way that you say you perceive the traffic on the list.  But, attempting to give you some traffic in a way I think you would like, here goes:

You wrote:
"it does appear that whenever the deeper discussions of the *philosophy* of the game design vis-à-vis Torg comes up, that one either gets no replies, or extremely defensive, even outright hostile ones."

My own thought about this is that, yes, your perception might be right, I think it can be, and moreover, I think this is because those of us who GM and play TORG have been doing so mostly for more than a decade, or have learned from someone who has played thusly.  We have been through the philosophy discussions, have had multiple campaigns, have tried the straight-up game, have playtested new and wacky ideas and elements in our games, have done convention games, and have become comfortable with our own rules perceptions and house rules for our own campaigns.  At the least, that is the case with me.  And I usually do not feel the urge to reply to anything that I have seen or heard before.  Believe me, in almost 20 years of TORG playing, there is not much that comes across this list that is new or novel to me.  Thus, I do what I usually do on this list: lurk.

So, while I do not wish to give you a negative reply ("you're ugly and your mama dresses you funny!"), I have no defensiveness to give you either (I mean, really, what possible effect can you have on MY games?  None.  We have no formal association, no required rules, no tournaments, and I am in no way bound to your ideas and thoughts on the game, exactly in the way that you are not bound to my own either.).  There is only so much I can do to write "Your ideas are interesting, but cannot help me with my own campaigns and materials; your wacky and new ideas are interesting but have either been tried by me and my players or do not appear to be possibly useful so we will not try them at all, along with the other 5000 wacky and new ideas we have seen on this and others lists."  After a while of repeating that, one gets tired of it.  It seems not to generate good, positive conversation.  Thus, I do what I usually do on this list: lurk.  :)

As a sometimes lurker, I do tell you confidently that I am neither uncomfortable, defensive, or offended by your posts or any other.  This is a hobby game, you and others have no power over my own game, and the list is only able to give me ideas against which I compare (constantly) all the previous ideas I have encountered and/or are currently using.  If your idea is interesting, fruitful, and useful, I will happily steal it, give you no credit, claim all responsibility to my own players, enhance my own reputation amongst them as being yet more intelligent and creative, and merrily live my life and play my hobby, happy as a clam, blithely ignoring the impending heat-death doom of the universe.  If your idea is not interesting, fruitful, and useful, then I cheerfully ignore it, as I have done so for thousands of other game ideas I have seen over the years.  For each of these ideas, I feel no particular need to say something like "That is interesting,
 but worthless to me at this time."  Thus, I do what I usually do on this list: lurk.  ;)

Michael

----- Original Message ----
From: Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>
To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:35:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Torg] What a tech 23/24 diamond shop is like

Curious:  apart from the conversations I initiate, the bulk of the traffic
on this list is more like this:  usually short bite sized comments or
suggestions for addons, or game content, or stuff in the world that reminds
one of Torg...  there's nothing wrong with that, of course, but come to
think of it, it does appear that whenever the deeper discussions of the
*philosophy* of the game design vis-à-vis Torg comes up, that one either
gets no replies, or extremely defensive, even outright hostile ones.
Although the lurkers may in fact have a different opinion, perhaps it is
simply true that the few vocal posters, apart from myself, are
uncomfortable, defensive, offended, or some such reaction to even exploring
ideas that challenge or modify core Torg ideas or systems - or even ones
that examine them closely.

I hope to be proven wrong, but that appears to be the state of things.

Here's where I am incorrigible - even though I may be right, I will probably
still post the deeper thoughts and the fundamental explorations of the game
and ways to play it, think about, and modify it even if I have little chance
to get the interchange I would hope for.  After all, even if my questions
and ideas go and remain unaddressed, they still are out there for both the
non-vocal lurkers and in the archives for posterity.

*shrug*

I guess that's fine. :)

-Benn Grant
eFix Computer Consulting
benn at 4eFix.com
603.283.6601

> -----Original Message-----
> From: torg-bounces at justintimeadventures.com [mailto:torg-
> bounces at justintimeadventures.com] On Behalf Of Stephen John Smoogen
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:22 AM
> To: torg at justintimeadventures.com
> Subject: [Torg] What a tech 23/24 diamond shop is like
> 
> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/magazine/17-04/ff_diamonds
> 
> Next time you want to get your players into and out of a realistic
> high security safe area.
> 
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux
> How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
> in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"
> _______________________________________________
> Torg mailing list
> Torg at justintimeadventures.com
> http://www.justintimeadventures.com/mailman/listinfo/torg

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