[TORG] Lower limits of modification

[Jasyn Jones]

On Oct 18, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Kansas Jim wrote:

> A computer crash at home has kept me from doing much with email the  
> past week, but I still seem to be more alive than anyone else around  
> here...

Isn't that usually true?  8-)

> Looking at animal writeups, nothing has a zero attribute even when a  
> 1 seems a bit preposterous (Nile tarantulas are strong enough to  
> lift 1.5 kilograms?)

Since TORG's scale is logarithmic, I guess 0 and even negative numbers  
are mathematically valid.  You could, conceivably, have an ant with a  
-4 TOU.  This even works out for mechanics.

Tou 10, Dam 15? 15 - 10 = 5. 5 RP's.

Tou -4, Dam 15? 15 - -4 = 19. 19 RP's.

When writing the rules, it seems as they assumed the typical RPG stat  
system where 1 = absolute minimum, and 0 = nothing. Hence, the super- 
spiders.

This is another place where TORG's maths might have been fudged, to  
make it more accessible. LOG's freak people out, telling someone they  
have to subtract a negative number might be too much. YMMV.

So, the question: In baseline TORG, can nothing can have an attribute  
of 0? Does 0 = Dead? And should it be that way? Or should we allow  
negative Stats?

> so I'm inclined to think that dropping something to a zero would  
> definitely  require a transformation. Off the top of my head I'm  
> inclined to say that the lower limit for modifications would be the  
> average attribute minus the maximum power push result, so basically  
> (8 - 6) 2s for baseline humans.

The regular rule: "Modifications boost an attribute value, within  
limits. The limit is either the Ayslish attribute maximum for that  
attribute or the current attribute, plus the maximum result from the  
standard Power Push table (+6) (or Speed Push table, +2, "whichever is  
appropriate.")"

One of the rules simplifications/nerfs I suggested was limiting  
modifications to the natural limits for that being. By the rules, you  
can only modify within natural limits, not outside of them. Thus, no  
invisible dwarfs through modification. Dwarfs aren't naturally  
invisible, and human beings don't naturally have a Strength of 20. A  
modification should be able to make you as strong as the strongest  
man, it shouldn't be able to make you stronger than any human could  
ever be. (With transformations, it's another story.)

If that were used, the above rule would read: Modifications can boost  
an attribute value, within limits. The limit is either the Ayslish  
attribute maximum for that attribute (for humans) or the average  
attribute, +2 (for everything else).

This has the benefit of being both clearer, more logical, more  
internally consistent, and less game breaking.

If we were to use that, the converse rule would be: Modifications can  
lower an attribute value, within limits. The limit is either 5 (for  
humans) or the average attribute, -2 (for everything else).

Simple, clear, effective, not game-breaking.

Jasyn Jones
jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com

"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson

Check out my Torg webpage, Storm Knights:

darleyconsulting.com/games/stormknights/