[Torg] A Magic Meta-System (Magic Axiom, 7 of 9)

[Jones Jasyn]

On Feb 1, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Phil Dack wrote:

>> From: Jones Jasyn <jasynj at gmail.com>
>> 
>> A Magic Meta-System
>> 
>> There are many systems of magic, each differing from the others. The Ages of 
>> Magic, and the new Magic axiom, have been written with the varying 
>> characteristics of different magic systems in mind. In effect, they describe not 
>> just one system of magic, but a meta-system of magic. This meta-system allows us 
>> to understand and incorporate many different magical systems.
> 
> I was thinking about this and I've changed my position recently. In the past I wanted a unified system that used the same mechanics for all magic, in a way that created parallels with alternative models but used the same core. Now I'm much more comfortable with the idea that, for magic at least, there's no right or wrong mechanic and that maybe AK's are the universal truth for Aysle but maybe not the cosmversal truth. 

Regarding multiple Traditions of magics and varying mechanics:

My goal in writing new axioms was twofold:

1.) Provide the tools for writers and gamemaster's to build the cosms they wish.

2.) In support of goal 1, as much as possible each axiom should be ecumenical. That is, the axiom charts shouldn't exclude any playable option, unless that option is fundamentally incompatible with the metaphysics of the Torg setting itself (e.g. the existence of the 4 axioms, possibility energy, everlaws, etc.)

Obviously, this means I support multiple Traditions, each with a different paradigm.

In most ways (for the Age of Arcana), this boils down to theme magic. The symbols vary (here, feathers and herbs, there diagrams and equations), and some spells are excluded, but the many Traditions are assumed to be using the same mechanics, the same skills, the same AK's. Unless…

Unless there is a compelling reason why this might be different. Even in the canon, Voodoo has its own Theorem (Community), Nile Engineering has its own magical skill and no AK's at all, Tharkold has multiple effects in one spell, and the Occult does away with the 4 magics entirely. Even in the canon, most cosms with magic have some small game mechanical exception to the standard rules. I see no reason why this should change.

Let me restate that: This should not change. Period. (You know, IMNSHO.) If this allows an extra AK, fine. If this allows an extra magic skill (Hello, Bloodshadows!), fine.

These small changes support color and should be allowed. Encouraged, even. So long as there is a good reason, and the rules are balanced, I'm all for it.

All of which is kind of a long-winded way of saying that I agree, mostly. Nearly mostly 100%.

> As such, while I think a metamagic system will define spells in terms of their range, effects and so forth just as illustrated,

IMHO: Certain core mechanics have to remain constant, such as those you list. Just to be gameable, we need EV, Range, Duration; for those measurements to interface with the rest of the system, we need to use the Value chart. Those things have to be constant.

> I'm comfortable that in one cosm, a spellcaster might learn spells according to the number of ranks they have in "1st level spells" and then cast them without a roll, to as-near-as-dammit replicate old scholl D&D casting.

This is a judgment call. In my opinion, the concept of a rolled bonus number is so intrinsic to the Torg rules—off the top of my head, possibilities and stymies spring to mind—that any mechanics imported into Torg must allow for this. To exclude rolling a bonus number would take the mechanics beyond what I perceive Torg to be.

That said, people have very different opinions on what Torg is and what it should be, and I am not going to condemn them if their opinion differs from mine. If you, or any other GM, like it this way and it makes your game better or more enjoyable, then go for it.

> One interesting thought relates to D&D4. This allows for quasi-magical abilities in non-magic using classes. If you were to recreate these in Torg, would the magic axiom be in fact the correct axiom, reflecting the quasi-magical nature of the abilities, or would you need to create new super-skills a la Martial Arts, to reflect their stated nature?

I guess that'd be a judgement call, on a case-by case basis. Some might be innate magical abilities, some maybe a power (like pulp powers), some a new skill with Magical or Spirit (or both) requirements. I'm not sure.

>> The mechanics of Mage: The Ascension cannot be perfectly replicated within Torg 
>> (not uncommon, see the Translating Game Mechanics sidebar). Even so, its 
>> concepts fit into the Magic chart and an appropriate axiom rating can be 
>> determined.
> 
> I think you could get pretty close though. But you'd have to accept that Aysle have seen one possible metaphysic, not the only one.


IMHO (as me and Dave Oakes thrashed out in 2003, I think), the metaphysical assumptions of the setting—such as the nature of technology—are incompatible with Torg's, in ways that cannot be reconciled.

If one were to ditch the metaphysics (something that, in the opinion of most Mage players I've talked to, would strip the setting of all its coolness), you could go with the extant spheres and their possible effects. Most of these would work but some effects would have to be pared, as they'd break the game. After stripping those out, then the rest of the mechanics could be translated (GURPS made a start at this).

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of this, I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. I'm just trying to judge the practicalities involved.

As for varying magical metaphysics, in order to implement my 1st and 2nd goals, I cannot assume that Patterns are the true form of magic everywhere. For my original realities, and to translate other settings with some degree of fidelity, the essence of magic has to be different in different cosms.

In a Wheel of Time setting, it's the One Power. In Shadowrun, Astral Space. In Elantris, the Dor. In Aysle, the Patterns. And so forth.

YMMV.

Jasyn Jones
jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com

"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson