[Torg] Fortune and the Future (was: The Magic Axiom Chart)

[Phil Dack]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Jasyn Jones <jasynj at gmail.com>
> 
> Are all Fated events caused by the Divine? Saying "yes" makes the game less 
> ecumenical.
> 
> Are all Fated events Magic? Again, a "yes" makes the game less ecumenical.

As it happens I agree, and came to this conclusion mid-post. But agreement is less interesting, less stimulating and less helpful in trying to uncover fundamental truths :-)
Linking fate to one axiom and chance to another is just too tidy, too simplistic and a bit silly really. As well as raising awkward questions about what happens at the alpha and omega of each axiom scale.

> > Chance relies on the magic axiom. The higher the magic axiom, the more random 
> > events occur.
> 
> Actually, as I understand it, the Magic axiom exists to make the universe *less* 
> random. Luck is about reducing randomness: instead of any old thing happening, 
> something good happens. A curse is less randomness, in a harmful direction.

I guess there are multiple "indices" of randomness - likelihood, benefit, impact. Does an event happen at all, is it good or bad, is it big or small. I think what I mean by more random events is something akin to Pratchett's "Law", that in a high magic area, million to one chances occur nine times out of ten. Unlikely stuff just happens. Sometimes. It strikes me that what you're then describing in Hexes is the Living's ability to use symbols to harness and recreate anti-probabilitistic events, using the increased influence of chance in high magic areas to increase the probability of favourable (or unfavourable, for curses) events.

> Can influencing the future happen at those axiom levels? Certainly. Can the 
> reading of an omen, or fortunetelling cause it? It might. Not in every instance, 
> and not in a provable manner, but yes, it can happen and thus would happen 
> sooner or later, somewhere. The internal logic allows for it, if not compelling 
> it.

It's ok, we agree. It's not a case of always and ever, but sometimes. And from the observers point of view, it's impossible to know which way it goes. Something for Meta-Thaum Philosopher to ponder over at great length no doubt.

> > I think this then reaches its apogee at Axiom 21 (or 33) when magic rules all, 
> such that divination does entirely create the future,
> 
> Now I'll whip around and say "I don't think this is a good idea." (Obviously, 
> based on my personal standards for what is good in this particular instance.)

Again, you're right. It's feasible, but it's messy and horrible and, as you say, totally ungameable. Best leave it. Any cosm that achieved this level of Magical power would probably become one with Apeiros anyway. Oh, now there's a nice new definition of enlightenment for us to play with!

Phil