[Torg] Fiction and Reality (Genre and Being Real, 2 of 6)

[Jasyn Jones]

On Feb 13, 2010, at 11:25 PM, Travis James Hall wrote:

>> Jasyn Jones
>> 
>> Truly, I don't think this is a radical change to Torg, and it 
>> isn't intended to be.
> 
> it isn't a radical change

Perfect.

> I don't recall anyone finding it a stumbling block.

Then I beg to differ on this point. Eric Gibson, for example, created an entirely new metaphysic- posted on the List- in an attempt to address the issue. He was frustrated when I disagreed with it (it was, in essence, the "other people" solution, A3), because he refused to believe that Core Earth was the center of existence, that it created all the other cosms.

In his mind, there was "Core Earth created other cosms", which he hated, and A3, which he devised to get away from that idea. (He was right to hate it, because "CE created all" is a bad idea.) 

The point being that he understood the metaphysical problems inherent with "cosms are genres", and also could glean no solution from the source material other than "CE's fiction influenced other realities." If the solution I proposed were buried in the source material, it was in a form no one could decipher, or at least no one has deciphered before now.

Then there's the times (many, many times) when I've clashed with people because I insisted that cosms are genres, which they flat out denied could be the case. Other insisted that CE was the real world, the cosmversal norm that all other realities differ from, because they sprang from Core Earth. CE is the real world, and everything else wasn't. And so forth.

Those answers given on the first post (A1-A5 plus "CE is the Center of Existence") are not hypotheticals, they're real examples of real people on the List, the boards, or my associates trying to reconcile "cosms reflect fiction, but aren't fiction." That is a metaphysical conundrum that has had no clear solution that is consonant with the source material. (Until now.)

That said, I am glad the solution works for you. (No matter how you arrived at it.)

> If I had been asked
> about it by someone, I'd have given the explanation I gave.

The question has come up before, and I couldn't find any good answer. If I missed yours, I regret it. You would have been right.

> I do suspect
> that this is largely what was always intended by the writers

Thank you. I'm glad the solution fits so well with the source. If they intended it, so much the better. Even if they didn't, I'm glad it enhances (or confirms) their vision of Torg.

Also, I wasn't sure that it's what they intended, and I didn't want to claim "This is my idea and the people who created the game agree with me." I try to clearly separate my opinions from the game's official declarations.

The reason I wasn't sure is that "The Chekov Solution" (from the Torg anthologies) posits the exact opposite situation: Wu Han is troubled because his behavior was caused by CE fiction, and racist fiction at that. This story may be where people gleaned the "CE created realities", and because it's by Greg Gorden (IIRC), the chief designer of Torg, it seems as official as nearly anything else.

When I was writing the article, I was sure the idea (CE was influenced by other realities) wasn't radical, that is, it didn't change the setting or ideas behind the setting at all. But, I thought the mechanisms of the solution would be radical: CE gleans PE from other cosms, which inspires natives. I wasn't sure that people would buy that, hence the discourse on CE's links with the rest of the cosmverse and on the inspirational nature of PE.

When proposing something that no one had before (AFAIK), I didn't want to assume that the rules already agreed with me, especially as I'd never found this solution in the rules themselves. Yet, like Jim's 4th Everlaw, the solution, even if new, fits the world so well, it almost has to be true.

So, whether the designers meant it or not, some explanation needed to be given. If I've reverse-engineered their solution, that's fine with me. I've no problem with unearthing other people's good solutions.

> (but they
> probably didn't consider it a big deal either).

They were very much proponents of A5: Just play! I'm sure none of the problems that have been so thoroughly chewed over by the List (Physics axiom! Spirit as Social! CE can't have world laws! Natural law!) even registered on their radar. They would probably have been baffled and amused if someone told them how seriously and how deeply we've probed not just the game itself, but the metaphysics and philosophies behind it. They didn't think any of these would be a big deal, yet they were (this included).
--
Jasyn Jones
jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com

"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson

Check out my Torg webpage, Storm Knights:
web.me.com/stormknights/