[Torg] The Magic Axiom Chart (Magic Axiom, 4 of 9)

[Chris]

As you describe Tradition, and reading through the other replies, it does
not seem that everything makes sense. It sounds like Traditions are being
tied to Axioms, and while I understand that some Traditions might only work
in Axioms of a certain level, it seems like it should be a choice made
relative to a culture that the character is from.

"On Earth, Traditions include: Vodoun, Kaballah, Enochian magic, geomancy,
and Pythagorean magic."

The above would imply that anyone from Core Earth would be able to choose
from one of those, or some that are practiced, but not exhaustively listed
for obvious reasons. Is that the intended path for this definition of the
system? It would seem to me under the description of Traditions that they
might be better treated in the manner of martial arts, with a few small
differences. Obviously, not all Traditions would necessarily be available
everywhere, and would have to be in locations relative to what magics are
allowed in that region/cosm. But within Core Earth, a mage should be able to
choose his Tradition according to what we know on Earth, and in Aysle, a
mage should be able to choose their Tradition. While they would likely
choose a Tradition that allows for all the things available to Aysle's
axiom, the Traditions of Earth would/could technically exist there, and
could be chosen by an Ayslish mage, though it would be exceedingly rare, as
they would be viewed as backward by the general population.

I am not trying to disagree with what you've posted, though in reading what
I've written it may sound as such. I am actually trying to gain a better
understanding of what is being suggested as, thus far, it seems to be a
rather general description which can be interpreted in a number of ways. And
in posing these thoughts/questions, maybe the disparity between what was
written and intended, and what others are reading and interpreting, might
shrink a little further. Though maybe I am speaking only for myself.

-chris


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Jasyn Jones <jasynj at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 18, 2010, at 10:31 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> > Having read 1 through 4 of this topic tonight, I have a minor question
> that I need clarified before I feel I can even continue. In (I think) the
> previous message (3/9), the word traditions was used in a very
> understandable context, and was lower case as one would expect. However, it
> also appears in this message and what I believe was the second message, in a
> different context, being that it is upper case. What exactly is a Tradition,
> and how does it differ from tradition?
>
> A Tradition is any internally coherent, externally incompatible body of
> magical knowledge. (Another common term is "School" as in "School of
> Magic".) On Earth, Traditions include: Vodoun, Kaballah, Enochian magic,
> geomancy, and Pythagorean magic.
>
> The body of knowledge includes magical laws that determine the symbology
> the Tradition uses. It includes metaphysical beliefs of the Tradition, moral
> codes, explanations of what magic is, and a selection of spells or rituals.
>
> In game terms, Traditions are "theme" magic: the feeling and idiom of the
> Tradition determines what the caster has to do to evoke rituals or cast
> spells, and limits what effects the Tradition can include in spells.
> (Vodoun? No fireballs.)
>
> In extreme examples, the Tradition may even require custom game mechanics.
> This is the case for Nile Empire Engineering & Mathematics, Orrorshan
> Occult, and the theme magics of Core Earth. Sometimes variant mechanics are
> an extra idiosyncratic AK, sometimes entirely new mechanics.
>
> Nile Engineering "feels" like it belongs in the Nile: it involves
> constructing pyramids and implanting traps in them. The "feel" of the
> Tradition is based around architecture and building, which is what all of
> its spells revolve around. Any new spells a player or GM creates for
> Engineering have to fit into this idiom, both in what they do and how they
> do it. Engineering isn't "everything goes" D&D wizards style of magic. It's
> specific, limited, and based around a theme.
>
> All Traditions have their theme. Vodoun is described in the Delphi Council
> Worldbook, and a selection of spells given. They all fit into the Vodoun
> idiom.
>
> > The other context I noticed it in was that of Mage: The Ascension; is the
> concept of magic in Mage migrating to Torg in how magic is limited based on
> background for your chart here?
>
> I really got lost in that sentence. I'm going to take a stab at answering,
> though:
>
> Is what "Tradition" means for my chart the same thing that Mage means when
> it uses the term "Tradition"? No. Roughly comparable, but not identical.
> Am I going to translate the spheres and metaphysics of Mage and use them as
> part of the Axiom chart? No.
>
> [Wish Magic]
>
> > The results should not be perfectly matching the users' desires when the
> magic first becomes available or it does not fit with your progression and
> description of other axiom levels, in my opinion.
>
> Side effects are part of the current Wish Magic rules.
>
> "There is always a chance that the evoker’s desired effect might not
> manifest exactly as envisioned. Also, unless carefully controlled, the
> energy released by evoking the wish can break free, causing bizarre side
> effects. The higher the magnitude, the more dangerous any side effects will
> be."
>
> Sample side effect: "A weird and uncomfortable side effect. The evoker may
> loose all body hair, change skin color, become nauseous for several minutes,
> fall unconscious and so forth."
>
> Sample error: "The effect differs from what the mage intended, but is very
> similar. A wish that changes a man into a horse might change him into a
> young colt instead."
>
> I have to revise the Wish Magic mechanics for the new chart, but the new
> mechanics will be comparable to the old.
>
> The Wish Magic article (if you want to read it, which believe me is wholly
> optional) and the article on Traditions are both here:
>
> http://web.me.com/stormknights/magicaxiom.html
>
> The Traditions article will also need to be revised.
>
> > I think I will leave my comments/questions to those for now.
>
> I do apologize, as I assumed that people had read my previous posts on
> Magic. I didn't mean to omit critical information, but I was trying to fit
> it into the least number of posts as possible, so as not to overwhelm the
> List.
>
> In any case, thanks for reading through the material. Any other questions
> or comments you may have, please feel free to send them my way.
> --
> Jasyn Jones
> jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
> Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson
>
> Check out my Torg webpage, Storm Knights:
> web.me.com/stormknights/
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