[Torg] Re: 10 Scale Tech Chart

[Chris]

I'm fairly certain penicillin has been in used much longer than the last 80
years. And even if you scroll down just a few lines in the wikipedia entry,
you'll find that it was being published prior to the end of the 19th
century. Theoretically, it could date back to the middle ages, but I'm
satisfied with 1875, as I recall it being discovered in the 1860s. As for
the something hasn't been discovered in Axiom Y but has in Axiom X, refers
to cosms that are condensed to a single line such as Antiquity, Land Below,
and Tz Ravok. I will admit freely I know little of these cosms, but I am
sure there are plenty of differences. And because they are different cosms,
even if they have the same Tech rating, does not mean that their histories
match up. And while they vastly would seem to predate penicillin, if one had
discovered it, and another had not, though they have the same Tech rating,
yes, they /could/ use it, but would they know what it is, how to use it, or
trust it? Those are issues that can occur. And that is the situation I am
asking about. One cosm on a line developing something, and a different cosm
collapsed to that line having developed it as well, but one actually uses
it, while the other shuns it for some reason. This is the question I am
posing about collapsing it down as shown in the 0-10. I pose questions, then
I seem to have to explain the reasoning behind the questions, and the
reasons behind the questions get viewed as a case for argument X, when it is
not an argument for anything, other than "can I get a better answer?"

I'm gonna be late for class if I don't leave.

-chris

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Jasyn Jones <jasynj at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> > And the question that was posed was intended to convey the idea that
> penicillin, which we commonly use in Core Earth, is less than the Tech
> rating of CE, and yet likely higher than the Tech rating of other cosms
> beneath its own rating on the chart.
>
> Chart under discussion:
>
> 0 : none
> 1 : furs and wall painting LL
> 2 : Antiquity, Land Below, Tz Ravok.
> 3 : Aysle
> 4 : Orrorsh
> 5 : Nile Empire
> 6 : Core Earth
> 7 : Nippon Tech
> 8 : CyberPapacy, Tharkold
> 9 : Space Gods
> 10 : Full Tech, Time Travel and so on.
>
> Penicillin was discovered in 1928, which is the Nile Empire's Tech.
>
> Just one question: if this 10-scale chart is such crap, why has every
> single example anyone's come up with been handled just fine? Age of Sail,
> Cold War, penicillin.
>
> I readily concede you could come up with an example, but no one has. If you
> can't think of anything the chart doesn't already cover, until you go back
> and do the historical research to find something, that means a 10-scale
> isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
>
> It's not perfect, but nothing is. It isn't my preferred chart, but it isn't
> the game-wrecker you've tried to portray it as.
>
> > And it becomes a much more tricky situation when playing a game and
> someone sees that this item is tech X, and their cosm happens to be tech X,
> but they cannot use it because it is not something they either developed in
> their cosm, despite their tech rating, or don't use for reasons that may not
> be obvious for a while.
>
> So what you're saying is that "If we identify tool X and determine it is
> Axiom Y, then people from Axiom Y should be able to use it, but a 10-scale
> chart won't let them."
>
> "They cannot use it" doesn't happen in Torg, no matter what scale chart
> we're talking about. In Torg, a cosm with Axiom Y *can* use anything at
> Axiom Y. If a tool isn't listed on the charts, but it's Axiom Y, they can
> use it. Introducing a new tool of Axiom Y means either:
>
> 1.) Their cosm could have developed it, but hasn't. (As you said.)
>
> or
>
> 2.) Their cosm did develop it, and this hasn't been mentioned yet.
>
> That's it. Neither of these enforce "you can't use this, ever."
>
> Otherwise, all the cosm sourcebooks would be useless- they all introduced
> new tools. All the new spellbooks would be useless, players could never
> create spells not already in the rulebooks, GM's could never introduce new
> developments (like the Kevlar vests mentioned on the List some years back).
>
> This doesn't have anything to do with any specific chart or whether it's
> good or not. It's the metaphysics of Torg.
> --
> Jasyn Jones
> jasynj (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
> Ulysses, Alfred Lord Tennyson
>
> Check out my Torg webpage, Storm Knights:
> web.me.com/stormknights/
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